/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

[Vstarstruck]

This IS something different, as I realized the parser debate is in actuality only a symptom of a bigger problem, and that is the game's lack of teaching DPS players the skills it expects them to have later.
DPS checks are in this game, and you don't even need to get to savage raids to find them. If the game expects players to do a set amount of damage within a certain time period, it should be teaching them how to do that BEFORE the moment arrives when they need to do so.

It's bad game design, plain and simple.

As many have suggested in this thread, the game is FILLED with opportunities to teach players more about their specific class and how to maximize its potential (or at least play well with it) but that never actually happens.

Healers and tanks find this teaching because they either keep people alive in lower level dungeons or they don't, but it forces them to learn how to play those classes.

DPS need more hands on teaching, and this seems like the kind of thing SE would solve with a special NPC that teaches players their ideal rotations or something along those lines.

That person you quoted still has a point though. There is a sticky asking you to search for topics:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...able-to-use-DF.

The idea of your thread has been made before you made this.

[RichardButte]

The idea of your thread has been made before you made this.

If you can find a thread proposing the hypothetical situation where tanks and healers have all pressure removed from their performance in dungeons, then I'll bump that instead.

I'm obviously not suggesting that happen, but I'm using it to illustrate the point that it's the pressure to perform in these scenarios that makes them better at their classes.

Without that pressure (or even a metric to gauge their effectiveness when in a party with other players), DPS don't improve because they have nothing to go off of.

[Zojha]

If you can find a thread proposing the hypothetical situation where tanks and healers have all pressure removed from their performance in dungeons, then I'll bump that instead.

You could also bump up a random:"Nerf X DPS check!" thread.

The "pressure" on tank and healer performance is on their enmity/healing, which is... pretty trivial. Spamming flash and occasionally adding an aggro combo is all you need to "succeed" as tank, that's all the "teaching" of the content amounts to. There's no need for provoke or even CDs until very late down the pipe, as there's little that can one-shot you without CDs at lower levels. WHMs can go all the way to 70 with only 4 skills on their bar - Stone for soloing, Cure, Cure II, Medica, slow pulls and that's all you ever need 'til endgame.

Now go and hold DPS accountable to that performance standard. I'm pretty sure most already exceed it and they fail regardless because the game demands considerably more of DPS than of tanks and healers. And thus, you can also go and ask for the DPS checks of this game to be nerfed so that DPS can beat them while playing at the performance standards of tanks/healers if fairness is your only concern. Which it likely isn't.

[Vstarstruck]

You could also bump up a random:"Nerf X DPS check!" thread.

The "pressure" on tank and healer performance is on their enmity/healing, which is... pretty trivial. Spamming flash and occasionally adding an aggro combo is all you need to "succeed" as tank, that's all the "teaching" of the content amounts to. There's no need for provoke or even CDs until very late down the pipe, as there's little that can one-shot you without CDs at lower levels. WHMs can go all the way to 70 with only 4 skills on their bar - Stone for soloing, Cure, Cure II, Medica, slow pulls and that's all you ever need 'til endgame.

Now go and hold DPS accountable to that performance standard. I'm pretty sure most already exceed it and they fail regardless because the game demands considerably more of DPS than of tanks and healers. And thus, you can also go and ask for the DPS checks of this game to be nerfed so that DPS can beat them while playing at the performance standards of tanks/healers if fairness is your only concern. Which it likely isn't.

Yep , im done, it was more of a bait and switch thread on matters already discussed. Can even be viewed as being related to his own thread of http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...REAM-come-true...

as some pointed out already. The op chooses to debate people only on defending if the thread was made legitimacy or not, rather then points made on the supposed issue. This is how we define a troll. I tried, i was ignored til I question the legitimacy of it, and instead of commenting what i said in full, proceeded just to comment on that specific part.