/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

[Lord_Zlatan]

I'll stick to Cactuar where I have had the fortune of not running into the troubles that 80% of the forums seems to be filled with.

same goes for famfrit and goblin ^^

[Deithwen]

snip

I am not saying it will solve every problem or make them better. But I'd take anything that can make those runs even a tiny bit faster. I also believe that every content at level 70 should be gated behind job quests, and leveling dungeons should have a minimum requirement. I also think that minimum average item level is not enough, and we should have something like every piece of gear > a certain ilv (say if you want to get in post HW content, every piece must be at least 255 for example).

I personnally would go a lot further than that, if someone is too lazy to read a tooltip or gear up properly not to be a burden, or even unlock their skills, they shouldn't be allowed to continue further until they fix their flaws.

[KaivaC]

Verflare is level 68, only Verholy is 70. Potency are the same, just the procs are different on execution, though that is not much of a DPS loss.
So if you see someone slacking off at using Verflare, then you can be sure Verholy won't see much use, either.

That is partially why threads like these come up...stuff like this. Not much of a DPS loss = DPS loss, period.

[Tridus]

Continuing our discussion from last week, there were some heavy calls to nerf the Royal Menagerie. And to my knowledge, the fight itself still has not been nerfed at all. Players are starting to outgear that fight, so they typically won't get one-shotted by the add drops - which by the way, is survivable, since you're pretty close to the meteor drops on the 3rd time, when you have to go to the edge between corners. It's not that everything is easy for raiders - it's that we actually took the time to pay attention to mechanics, learn them, and actually worked at getting good in our respective jobs. It's not that hard for regular players to do at least that, even back during the initial 4.0 patch.

Keep in mind that while there were calls to nerf it, there wasn't an epidemic of people getting it in roulette and dropping group. People doing MSQ have always been able to complete it, although it may take a few tries.

Steps of Faith was nerfed because a large segment of the community said "F that" and simply refused to do it ever again, thus forming a wall that newbies couldn't get past. Groups also tended to devolve into yelling and bickering over who should be doing what. To the community's credit, Menagerie wasn't nearly as bad. There were more people willing to help people through it when it came up. I don't know if wanting it to not get nerfed into the ground was a factor or if people were just nicer this time around, but it never formed the same kind of MSQ brick wall. Thus, SE didn't need to act.

It's too bad in that Steps of Faith is a neat encounter, but it's one that benefits massively from a group having a leader explaining who should be doing what, and having people willing to do it. When you either don't have anyone taking charge or have people arguing and refusing to do a given role, it simply doesn't work.

Players should not be stepping into The Royal Menagerie at all until they finish their lvl 70 job quest. If not only for that last job skill, it's to at least get their 290 gear. I really feel like the fight should be completely gated until players finish their last quest. Heck, I'd even venture far enough to be an advocate of gating off Ala Mhigo until then, just for lore purposes. A huge chunk of jobs just aren't complete without that lvl 70 job skill, and the skill completes the job in many ways. Dark Knights get a pretty quick, almost overpowered shield, Paladins get Passage of Arms, hell, SMNs are not complete at all until they finish the Lvl 70 quest.

I agree. Hell, I had my WHM 70 quest done before Doma Castle, because I'm slow at completing the story, lol (not that Plenary Indulgence even remotely mattered at the time). That 290 gear is itself something that matters and it's something the game should try to make sure people do.

[AxlStream]

"Set up to fail"? This is just ridiculous. You set up your own failures by not understanding what SE expects from you. Especially now with the SB leveling dungeons which are basically a crash course of how to function as a party. If you can't figure out a rotation have you tried, oh I dunno, reading the tooltips and properly understanding your abilities and your job? Warriors are obviously dependent on their Berserk windows for damage so plan Beast Gauge usage in consequence. Machinist needs to optimize Wildfire damage. Monk needs to keep buff and debuffs going while switching stances. All this should give you a pretty good indicator of what you should be doing. Don't blame SE because they thought you could actually take a moment to figure out how to play.

[Lord_Zlatan]

It is partly a game design issue too, as nowhere the game tells you you are required to finish your job quest. All you get is a friendly reminder you can run your job quest. But important skills are locked behind it, the game doesn't however lock content that would require you to have that skill.
The game shouldn't allow people to run lv 70 content without first completing the lv 70 job quest.

Come on... anyone that has ever played a game with classes in it shouldnt have to be "told" to unlock the better/best things their class has to offer. Hell, even if u take the time to look at your "Actions" it is pretty clear your job quest is a good place to look if you havent unlocked all of them.

[Ametrine]

Yet, I had a newbie (week into the game) ask me why and, if so, when he should start playing under WHM as CNJ had 10 role skill slots verses 5.
It wasn't hard to explain, but at level 35, those 10 slots look better than what little a WHM can access differently from CNJ.

Job quest given spells aren't listed under "actions."

(That might be a contributing factor to the small population of players that never get their job crystal popping up in later content. Some are obvious trolls, but others are very much misinformed.)

[Cakekizyy]

Yet, I had a newbie (week into the game) ask me why and, if so, when he should start playing under WHM as CNJ had 10 role skill slots verses 5.
It wasn't hard to explain, but at level 35, those 10 slots look better than what little a WHM can access differently from CNJ.

Job quest given spells aren't listed under "actions."

(That might be a contributing factor to the small population of players that never get their job crystal popping up in later content. Some are obvious trolls, but others are very much misinformed.)

Don't they show up if you reached that level in potd though?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't know if wanting it to not get nerfed into the ground was a factor or if people were just nicer this time around, but it never formed the same kind of MSQ brick wall. Thus, SE didn't need to act.

Two issues with Steps of Faith prior to its nerf were, as far as I've heard:

1. Missing a single Dragon Cannon basically spelled wipe barring absurdly high DPS
2. There was no way to wipe the party until the duty failed, thus each attempt could range well over ten minutes.

The latter was likely a bigger factor in veterans leaving en masse. Why wipe for a half hour (or longer) when you could eat the penalty and hopefully get Garuda, who basically rolled over? Shinryu had neither problem, which made people were willing to just stick it out.

[Jijifli]

1. Missing a single Dragon Cannon basically spelled wipe barring absurdly high DPS

Ya now you don't even need to use the cannons or killers at all and can still manage to kill it with plenty of time to spare. Hell, in some cases people get mad if you do use the killer because you gotta stop hitting the dragon.