Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

[Khanscott]

Taking the living testaments to society's failure out of the equation, figure out how much the average DPS you need to pull to clear the enrage time and improve from there as you progress. How is this hard again?

[MoroMurasaki]

This is certainly a cyclic argument at this point but just because I feel like it hasn't been stated nearly enough... People who are anti-parser are you okay with people not pulling their own weight in clear/farm parties you're in?

Some of you talk a big game about it being better to disband a party that isn't clearing than to know who the problem is and remove them if they can't keep up. I feel like that likely isn't what you practice and even if it is why is it okay to invalidate the experience and time of 7 players for the hurt feelings of someone who has gone into content way over their head?

Everyone is quick to pity the poor, underperforming part of the playerbase - how about a little sensitivity to the people who have sunk a lot of time and effort into this game? Why are their feelings and time considered less important?

I joined a Susano clear party that had to disband recently. The description clearly asked for people who knew what they were doing to essentially get someone their clear and help farm them some totems to pick up a Susano weapon they wanted for glam. I assumed this meant we would all (this RDM aside) be remotely competent at both our jobs and the fight.

The RDM, despite being new to the fight, actually wasn't even the biggest problem. They dropped lightning on us once but so did several other party members. Even with two competent healers healing our butts off we couldn't clear this incredibly easy fight, we were running dry on MP even with consistant Mana Shifts from our newbie RDM friend.

This PF asked for people to be competent and got incompetent players by and large. If there were a parser perhaps we could have seen the issues and kicked the biggest offenders, instead that RDM had to wait two more nights for their clear and my cohealer and I had our time wasted by idiots that don't read their PF descriptions.

I don't know if anyone's experience actually matters to you guys, it sorta seems like you're trolling at this point, but there are tons of situations like this all the time that would be better resolved with an ingame parser.

[HoodRat]

This is certainly a cyclic argument at this point but just because I feel like it hasn't been stated nearly enough... People who are anti-parser are you okay with people not pulling their own weight in clear/farm parties you're in?

Some of you talk a big game about it being better to disband a party that isn't clearing than to know who the problem is and remove them if they can't keep up. I feel like that likely isn't what you practice and even if it is why is it okay to invalidate the experience and time of 7 players for the hurt feelings of someone who has gone into content way over their head?

Well, there was that one poll thread where many of the participants said they would not be okay with having to do expert roulette with people of a similar skill level.

[MoroMurasaki]

Well, there was that one poll thread where many of the participants said they would not be okay with having to do expert roulette with people of a similar skill level.

I don't understand... I love doing expert roulette with people of a similar skill level. I go out of my way to either do it with a full FC group or at least 2 friends just so I know it won't be awful. Maybe I'm missing something here?

Well Moro, calling people out without a parser is fine, even if it ends up being inaccurate.

But calling people out with a parser? Not only it's toxic but its harassment.

Actually you know what, the whole call out thing is harassment. Let people play the game however they want.

And you better had not silently disbanded that party. That's just rude.

I left that party after friending the RDM it was made for and telling them to let me know when they wanted to try again.

How toxic of me to not friend everyone there and offer to personally carry them through.

Oh wait, it's also toxic to say carry... Damn.

Maybe I just stop talking to anyone ingame for fear of offending them?

Unrelated: You both have amazing hats.

[SenorPatty]

This is certainly a cyclic argument at this point but just because I feel like it hasn't been stated nearly enough... People who are anti-parser are you okay with people not pulling their own weight in clear/farm parties you're in?

Well Moro, calling people out without a parser is fine, even if it ends up being inaccurate.

But calling people out with a parser? Not only it's toxic but its harassment.

Actually you know what, the whole call out thing is harassment. Let people play the game however they want.

And you better had not silently disbanded that party. That's just rude.

[Oscura]

That is why he does not want parsers, you are basically saying people are not good enough to play with

Wow. Is it really so wrong that someone wants to play with people of similar skill level? That's why people don't want parsers? So they can deny others the ability to play with like-minded people if it means they can be carried or coddled to? That's why I've always found the argument so self-fulfilling. It's not about other people, it's just about the person themselves. It's like "think of the children," but replace children with "players who can't/won't/don't play at a savage level." It's preachy nonsense when people are ultimately only thinking about themselves.

There is nothing wrong with saying certain people aren't good enough to play with. Even outside of gaming, it is constantly proven that participating in a group of like-minded individuals or individuals with common goals or skill-sets will benefit you in the long run. Whether it be healthy coordination or encouraging you to improve. Sometimes teaming up with people who are as skilled as you are allows you to overcome hurdles when you want to improve yourself, as having multiple viewpoints or seeing another person's experience always helps. It certainly makes things more interesting for me when I have people who are of a similar skill with me, because I'm motivated to push myself further to go beyond what the group already has.

I'm actually getting tired of this rhetoric that people should be able to play how they want, when they want, and do however much DPS they please, but when someone who actually has a modicum of skill says, "I don't want to play with people worse than me," they're suddenly painted in a negative light. It's hypocritical, pure and simple. To imply that you (I say this generally, not you specifically) don't want parsers because you (again, general) don't want others excluding you for a different mindset, thus playing as they please, is just...too much.

Using someone's desire to play with others of a similar level of skill as a reason for why parsing is bad just sounds like you're shaming them for playing as they want. I'm getting tired of people supporting that attitude in the slightest.

[Vstarstruck]

Wow. Is it really so wrong that someone wants to play with people of similar skill level? That's why people don't want parsers? So they can deny others the ability to play with like-minded people if it means they can be carried or coddled to? That's why I've always found the argument so self-fulfilling. It's notabout other people, it's just about the person themselves. It's like "think of the children," but replace children with "players who can't/won't/don't play at a savage level." It's preachy nonsense when people are ultimately only thinking about themselves.

There is nothing wrong with saying certain people aren't good enough to play with. Even outside of gaming, it is constantly proven that participating in a group of like-minded individuals or individuals with common goals or skill-sets will benefit you in the long run. Whether it be healthy coordination or encouraging you to improve. Sometimes teaming up with people who are as skilled as you are allows you to overcome hurdles when you want to improve yourself, as having multiple viewpoints or seeing another person's experience always helps. It certainly makes things more interesting for me when I have people who are of a similar skill with me, because I'm motivated to push myself further to go beyond what the group already has.

I'm actually getting tired of this rhetoric that people should be able to play how they want, when they want, and do however much DPS they please, but when someone who actually has a modicum of skill says, "I don't want to play with people worse than me," they're suddenly painted in a negative light. It's hypocritical, pure and simple. To imply that you (I say this generally, not you specifically) don't want parsers because you (again, general) don't want others excluding you for a different mindset, thus playing as they please, is just...too much.

Using someone's desire to play with others of a similar level of skill as a reason for why parsing is bad just sounds like you're shaming them for playing as they want. I'm getting tired of people supporting that attitude in the slightest.

Throws arms in the air.
I give up
are people intentionally twisting my words or they legit do not understand what I am saying?
Someone did:

Kaidea, I think she means that even if you pug, you probably pug at the highest difficulty levels where they filter out harassment because the pool of raiders that can play at that level is small anyways. You can't really evaluate the parser culture because the bulk of it is going to hit people in the middle reaches of skill, in the same way Overwatch pros and normal players have different cultures and player rankings. Generally world firsters you have to ignore in these discussions; they aren't the ones who are indicative of the general culture of the game.

It is a prospective issue, not being exposed outside your bubble, while trying to push every other situation is the same as the bubble you are in. Has nothing to do with what is wrong or right

[Oscura]

Throws arms in the air.
I give up
are people intentionally twisting my words or they legit do not understand what I am saying?

You literally said that Bourne saying others aren't good enough to play with is why "he" doesn't want parsers, I presume Yoshida. It implies that there is something wrong with it if you take it at face value. I didn't misinterpret anything, you just poorly worded your sentence.

Someone did:


It is a prospective issue, not being exposed outside your bubble, while trying to push every other situation is the same as the bubble you are in. Has nothing to do with what is wrong or right

Not everyone who is posting here is of the highest level though? In general when I pug I pug with the average player. I'm nothing close to a world first player. While I may be more skilled than the average person and have cleared savage content, it does not mean I am suddenly blind to issues or dilemmas in other skill levels because of "culture." If that was your point, you're making a lot of assumptions, which is a terrible thing to do. I know it's not about wrong or right, I am just saying that people keep making sweeping generalizations and it's just hurting their arguments. I am not part of a "bubble," and most people you are speaking to probably aren't as well.

[Nedkel]

This is certainly a cyclic argument at this point but just because I feel like it hasn't been stated nearly enough... People who are anti-parser are you okay with people not pulling their own weight in clear/farm parties you're in?

For me personally, its not okay if someone is obviously trolling, but i dont mind now someone doing badly, because i do not like to be called for it either. I have learned that from League of Legends when community outrage is gigantic, i also understand it doesnt matter if am i going to be mad or not, since there is nothing to be mad about at the end of the day its just a game, great part of the gamers community doesnt take it seriously so why should i? My rage will not learn anyone how to play, you will not convince them how to play properly, so why bother.
I am coming from a conclusion, if you want to have fun in the game, you need to be the part of that fun in online game. Raging and calling and kicking will only enforce this behavior further into the community, if i will kick someone for their performance, the one kicked away will do it to the someone else.

@edit
And official, available for everyone parser will just make these things worse. An ability to judge other people performance is what could push a lot of people to go bananas over the game. Just look what it is playing as a tank or a healer and being kicked out for small things, it happen to me few times already, because i was "spinning the mobs/boss" or not waiting for the buff, or the dps died because it have rushed and pulled himself.
This makes me believe for sure, there will be people who will cry around over someone dps being like 20-30% lower. I could see even a healers getting called more often if they focus on keeping a tank alive but dont do any dmg. Since checking it would be super easy, this will happen more frequently.

Some of you talk a big game about it being better to disband a party that isn't clearing than to know who the problem is and remove them if they can't keep up. I feel like that likely isn't what you practice and even if it is why is it okay to invalidate the experience and time of 7 players for the hurt feelings of someone who has gone into content way over their head?

Everyone is quick to pity the poor, underperforming part of the playerbase - how about a little sensitivity to the people who have sunk a lot of time and effort into this game? Why are their feelings and time considered less important?

Because playing badly is for the most part not a thing someone could overcome so easly. What if that one guy has weird IRL circumstances happening around him or when he never played mmorpg before or is he doing the certain duty for the first time, he doesnt control it and doesnt have an ability to just stop playing badly on a dime.
The people raging and being rude could control themselves, and they are being little brats over a game, over a PUG which an experienced player should have know he is not going to get everyone playing good in it. You may be playing with a party finder, well thats not also the best way to get things sorted, its just a different form of PUG with random people looking for a party.

I joined a Susano clear party that had to disband recently. The description clearly asked for people who knew what they were doing to essentially get someone their clear and help farm them some totems to pick up a Susano weapon they wanted for glam. I assumed this meant we would all (this RDM aside) be remotely competent at both our jobs and the fight.

The RDM, despite being new to the fight, actually wasn't even the biggest problem. They dropped lightning on us once but so did several other party members. Even with two competent healers healing our butts off we couldn't clear this incredibly easy fight, we were running dry on MP even with consistant Mana Shifts from our newbie RDM friend.

This PF asked for people to be competent and got incompetent players by and large. If there were a parser perhaps we could have seen the issues and kicked the biggest offenders, instead that RDM had to wait two more nights for their clear and my cohealer and I had our time wasted by idiots that don't read their PF descriptions.

I don't know if anyone's experience actually matters to you guys, it sorta seems like you're trolling at this point, but there are tons of situations like this all the time that would be better resolved with an ingame parser.

1. I understand people getting annoyed when they losed their ranking in the certain team based game (cs go, lol, dota), but i cant understand why over such stupid thing? People on low lvls when they need to beat a certain dungeon in order to proceed into the story has better excuse of being abusive than this, but i find them way more patient and kind then someone apparently rushing for glamour, that makes no sense.
I know the time is precious, but when someone value their own time over the progress they do, they could be called addicted to the game. They dont get anything real anyway, they still waste time for the game, and they should be aware of they dont really are entitled to do the progress all the time and there is a chance of them losing something, like in any other game, sometimes you just lose sometimes you win, you cant win all the time, lol.

2. The game is growing and inviting more newbies also those from the consoles who never played mmorpg before, % of "competent players" will decrease and there is nothing to be surprised about when you could see increased number of people who has problems with each class mechanics. Red mage is not easy class to play as far as i have been told.

Also i would like to know how many runs it takes on the hardest content to lose one, because i cant believe it is more than 50% and everyone having a problem doing it.

[Tridus]

For me personally, its not okay if someone is obviously trolling, but i dont mind now someone doing badly, because i do not like to be called for it either. I have learned that from League of Legends when community outrage is gigantic, i also understand it doesnt matter if am i going to be mad or not, since there is nothing to be mad about at the end of the day its just a game, great part of the gamers community doesnt take it seriously so why should i? My rage will not learn anyone how to play, you will not convince them how to play properly, so why bother.
I am coming from a conclusion, if you want to have fun in the game, you need to be the part of that fun in online game. Raging and calling and kicking will only enforce this behavior further into the community, if i will kick someone for their performance, the one kicked away will do it to the someone else.

It's a team game, at the end of the day. If one person's underperformance is causing seven other people to fail, the best thing to do for the team is kick that person and bring in someone who can play at the same level as the other seven. Is it fair to have everyone else have their time wasted by someone who simply can't play at that level?

Because playing badly is for the most part not a thing someone could overcome so easly. What if that one guy has weird IRL circumstances happening around him or when he never played mmorpg before or is he doing the certain duty for the first time, he doesnt control it and doesnt have an ability to just stop playing badly on a dime.

Someone doing a high end duty for the first time should join a learning party, where that's the expectation. Nothing wrong with that at all. Someone who has never played an MMO before isn't going to be doing Susano Ex, they'll be doing Copperbell Mines, and that one is tuned for learning. Someone who has weird IRL circumstances is unfortunate, but again, why does that mean everyone else has to suffer?

At some point, you have to respect other people's time. I see very little of that in a lot of these posts.

The people raging and being rude could control themselves, and they are being little brats over a game, over a PUG which an experienced player should have know he is not going to get everyone playing good in it. You may be playing with a party finder, well thats not also the best way to get things sorted, its just a different form of PUG with random people looking for a party.

There's no reason to be rude, but if I set up a farm party and you're incapable of farming, I'm kicking you. I can be polite about it, but I'm still kicking you. Some people call that rude elitist toxic behavior all on its own. But there's a bunch of other people also paying subs who joined a farm party, and as the party leader that's what I try and deliver.

1. I understand people getting annoyed when they losed their ranking in the certain team based game (cs go, lol, dota), but i cant understand why over such stupid thing? People on low lvls when they need to beat a certain dungeon in order to proceed into the story has better excuse of being abusive than this, but i find them way more patient and kind then someone apparently rushing for glamour, that makes no sense.

Story content is largely in levelling roulette, especially with newbies. Everyone knows you're getting newbies in levelling roulette. It's fine.

A farm party should be able to farm. That's the point. If someone can't, they shouldn't be there. That's on them for wasting everyone else's time, not on everyone else for being unwilling to have their own play time hijacked so someone can get a carry.

I know the time is precious, but when someone value their own time over the progress they do, they could be called addicted to the game.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Addiction has a specific meaning and diagnosis. Belittling that like this is insulting.

They dont get anything real anyway, they still waste time for the game, and they should be aware of they dont really are entitled to do the progress all the time and there is a chance of them losing something, like in any other game, sometimes you just lose sometimes you win, you cant win all the time, lol.

The entire game is a "waste of time", if you think about it. It's recreation. If people choose to spend their time on it, that's their right in a free society. And yeah, you might lose on some runs. That's how it goes. But if you're losing because someone simply can't play at the level required, you remove them and fix the problem. You don't throw your hands up and go "oh well, I guess it's impossible tonight because forming a party that actually can clear the encounter would be rude".

2. The game is growing and inviting more newbies also those from the consoles who never played mmorpg before, % of "competent players" will decrease and there is nothing to be surprised about when you could see increased number of people who has problems with each class mechanics. Red mage is not easy class to play as far as i have been told.

And as people play longer, the % of competent players goes up. Experience helps you develop skill, after all. But that doesn't happen if we just decide that not knowing how to do anything and being carried through all content is fine. At some point if you want to do high end content, you need to learn how to do it. That process involves learning parties and wipes, but it leaves you a better player when you come out the other end.

(Remember: SE lets you kick people for "playstyle differences".)