In competition with myself: a request for PERSONAL parsers

[VanilleFang]

I like how you get a speed rating for how quickly you killed the second boss in the Temple of Fist, because it actually feels reasonably difficult to get the best rating.

Part of me kind of wishes they'd have rewards for speed clearing content, but I feel like that could possibly breed just as much toxicity as a parser.

That'd be worst than a parser. People are already impatient. Imagine if you could cause them to miss out on something if you are just a little too slow?

[KageTokage]

I now recall that mechanic being in WoW

Never have I experienced a more toxic MMO playerbase then there, and having multiple instances where you're rewarded for going fast didn't help with that, though it certainly encouraged people to try harder and push themselves to the limit.

[Singularity]

Simply put, if people want to obtain context for their numbers, they should just ask for an actual parser.

Seeing what other members of the group are doing is not context. Even if there is another player in the group on the same job as me, seeing that I'm doing 2.7k and they're doing 3.2 shows me nothing except that I could perhaps be doing 3.2 also - It's not grounded on any kind of scale. In fact both of us are doing badly, and me seeking to emulate them would just be learning different bad habits. Then maybe I get grouped with a 4k <job>, should I aspire to be like them? is that what <job> is capable of? I'd have to randomly stumble into a group with another <job> that is doing near-optimal damage to really see where the target is, and even then I wouldn't know for sure that it is the target.

Whatever features a groupwide parser might bring, lending context to one's own numbers is not one of them.

[BluexBird]

That is actually how I improved as a Warrior, though? I used to always tank in Defiance, until someone told me I could be doing a lot more damage if I switched to Deliverance. They then showed me my numbers at the end of our A10S run and told me I could be doing even higher! Granted, I was already pretty high, but he said I could easily go up another 200 points with some adjustments.

After that I started, I started being mindful of my rotations. And honestly, the game become more interesting for me after that. It was no longer a matter of simply being able to do mechanics properly and finish the fight without dying. Rather, I had to do that AND try to do as much damage as I could.

[JunseiKei]

You could always just ask SE to change the SSS dummies so they move around like the actual boss does, or display hit zones for you to dodge (even though no attack will actually happen). Can't guarantee they'd make such a change though.

I think this line irritated me enough to want to quote it and respond to it:

SSS is there solely to see if your gear and rotation will allow you to deal enough damage to clear the content you're aiming to do without having to set foot into the fight. If you can't even clear SSS, there's no point in you even trying to dodge and do mechanics; you'll end up as dead-weight that others need to make up for elsewhere. SSS was never meant to be a test for the fight; the fight itself is the test. Are there tests for taking tests in school anymore? Last I checked, you were given notes (skill descriptions) and it was up to you to do homework to learn the material. Although this is a game, the same still applies. There are plenty of hobbies out there that require research and learning before you can jump into them (including, but not limited to: glass blowing, working on cars/computers/machines in general, glass etching, metalsmithing, writing, any kind of sport; I think you get the point).

Also, pretty sure I said this elsewhere in other threads similar, Yoshi has gone on record to say he does not want a personal parser added to the game either because he knows (emphasis on knows) that people will crack it to allow for monitoring of others, too.

[Ampheni]

I don't know...can't the parser be like only use-able on a premade party like pf? And make it as an option in the duty finder like how you turn on lootmaster? So if someone joins a party that turns on the parser, everyone will get to see their parse/eachother's parses, otherwise the parser is off for everyone in the party. If you join a parse-enabled party, you are basically accepting that u may get criticized, if you don't want to be criticized, just join a parser-off party? I think something like that could work, while I do see most higher end content pf like ex trials and savage raids people will usually ask for parses. But then again, if you are doing ex trials/savage you likely want to see your own numbers and improve yourself anyway, so most party doing those would likely have parse on.

TL;DR
It will be just like you get to choose to join a lootmaster party or a non lootmaster party.

[Miracle_Diva]

But then again, if you are doing ex trials/savage you likely want to see your own numbers and improve yourself anyway, so most party doing those would likely have parse on.

I REALLY hope that people start improving BEFORE they go to Ex\Savage.
I wish game would help those who learn about their class throughout lvling to 70, so when people suddenly face trials like Shinryu normal after faceroll content, they wouldn't cry for nerf.
Personal parser wont help in that case, cuz you can't compare yourself to others.
I hope SE will do something with it soon, hope that we get a *system* that reward you for doing more, so people would finally think - Hm, this guy does way more than I do playing the same class, if I do more I get additional tomestones\items\etc, but how do I do more?*
Toxicity will be everywhere because of people, not parsers. Don't blame the tool we all need.

[RichardButte]

I think it's very important to provide the functionality everyone is asking for without auto-opting in everyone.

Fair enough, and yeah, all I want is a tool to self-improve and I definitely don't feel as though I have that right now.

Yoshi has gone on record to say he does not want a personal parser added to the game either because he knows (emphasis on knows) that people will crack it to allow for monitoring of others, too.

Between this and the revelation that FFXIV's database server is actually 300 abacuses taped together, I'm wondering how the game is still running at all...

Though what he's describing is the 3rd party parsers which already exist so I'm not sure what his problem is. The same rule still applies. Someone calls you out on your DPS? Report them because they have information they shouldn't.

[Sebazy]

Also, pretty sure I said this elsewhere in other threads similar, Yoshi has gone on record to say he does not want a personal parser added to the game either because he knows (emphasis on knows) that people will crack it to allow for monitoring of others, too.

I've got a feeling your taking a different comment a little out of context? (but I admit could be mistaken here) Any chance of a link to that?

Secondly. I really really can't emphasise this enough.

If SE were to put a self only parser in, all they have to do is make it completely client side. From there, there is no way that other people would be able to read the data from it (short of them already having a backdoor to your machine anyhow, in which case, you've got bigger problems sir). This fear is completely and utterly unfounded.

[Shurrikhan]

1. True, jerks are jerks and will be no matter what we do, but denying them one more thing to superficially bitch about is a good thing.

2. I tank too. I don't want people ALSO bitching about the DPS I'm doing/not doing in addition to how I don't use cooldowns and/or should pull more stuff. I imagine a parser would also be able to tell you how much the Healer is overhealing or not contributing to DPS, that sounds like extra unfun they don't need. Saying that those classes suffer so DPS should too isn't a great argument. You'd be adding grief to everyone's life if this couldn't be turned off.


I think it's very important to provide the functionality everyone is asking for without auto-opting in everyone.

1. True, but denying jerks actual ammo does not deny them something to bitch about. They're perfectly happy firing blanks. In most cases, jerks can do more to make your life miserable through ambiguity and supposition thereupon than with proof to the same effect.

2. Why shouldn't they, though? A bit more leniency ought to be given, since they have more pressing concerns to worry about when learning a fight or managing its more complex moments, but there's no less reason for a tank or healer to optimize, given the time, than for a DPS to do so. In the end this mostly comes down to how apparent the parser can make its benchmarking. Just as relative potency provides a more reliable metric than true damage, and support damage to be counted to its contributor rather than its executor -- or at least in large portion -- better shows actual contributions, one could technically even go the step further to look at theoretical relative potency possible over the seconds of combat in play and give a performance percentile accordingly -- assuming those estimates could be made variably as to favor the goals apparent. You could even go a step further from there and look at performance percentile accordant to movements between stationary-requiring casts or forcibly instant casts and other actions per minute, mitigation performance, etc., and mark other throughputs in an accordant rating color based on expectation in that category given the performance in the others (doing more elsewhere, then a 82% performance in DPS is already at the highest possible rank for that tank). There are plenty of possibilities here.

I'll agree though that anything with an opt-in option needs to default to opt-out. I don't particularly believe that there even needs to be an opt-out option, nor that parsers need to be personal only, but so long as you're going to have the option, a deactivated default behavior is just a given. Outside of a trial, you don't call something truly "free" so long as you cancel it before a massive subscription bill; you don't call something like this no-risk if you need to figure out how to opt out in the first place.

Drawing from experience from other games with embedded official or essentially mandatory parsers, in a party where every player has a parser, bad dps call-outs just for the sake of drawing attention to those numbers is met with the same sigh of perceived stupidity as noting that people mostly speak in words. The numbers are there for everyone. Thus that step is skipped in favor of the advice or decision stages, and if neither is available then people just don't bother. It's the possibility that someone might not be parsing that gives the excuse for implicative pointing. Once it's clear no one needs that information, that whole subtle form of epeening -- except in jest, usually between friends -- becomes a silly redundancy and is almost always avoided. And the funny thing is, I've yet to see toxicity in any of those cases where it wouldn't have occured more frequently in a game without mandatory parsers, mostly because the only time it does occur is when someone is clearly unfit for the content they are attempting (more often due to being in poor form at the time or were misinformed about the likely gear requirements than a general lack of mechanical knowledge or skill), and such cases occur far less often when people have benchmarking information available to them at all times.