It's about time the GMs or devs respond to the RMT going on in the PF

[ErryK]

But selling runs is totally unrelated with RMT, right guys>

Isn't this just as bad as saying everyone who parses is an elitist?

[Vidu]

But selling runs is totally unrelated with RMT, right guys>

Just as related as expensive items (rare drops, endgame crafts) on the marketboard are, I'd say?
The product or service purchased with gil isnt the problem - if the gil came from non-legit means, thats the problem.

I've gotten the impression that the argument "run selling is promoting RMT" is most often used by people who dont like run selling...

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Just as related as expensive items (rare drops, endgame crafts) on the marketboard are, I'd say?
The product or service purchased with gil isnt the problem - if the gil game from non-legit means, thats the problem.

I've gotten the impression that the argument "run selling is promoting RMT" is most often used by people who dont like run selling...

Yes, but how likely is it that someone with 1 level 70 and no crafters or gatherers is going to have 100+mil for run purchases by legitimate means. And any content sales that require paypal ARE RMT. You could even argue that people are making the game P2W

[Vidu]

Yes, but how likely is it that someone with 1 level 70 and no crafters or gatherers is going to have 100+mil for run purchases by legitimate means. And any content sales that require paypal ARE RMT. You could even argue that people are making the game P2W

Well, how likely is it that such a person has 15 millions to purchase some of the new glamour-gear we got with the last patch? (At least its 15-25 millions for that gear on my server atm)
Or 20 million for the Black Pegasus? Or 50 million for the Shiba-pet (I saw some getting sold for that amount - it has since dropped to the more reasonable but still high price of 4-5 mil)?

I'm not arguing that the current trend of selling runs for real money isnt wrong and worrying - however legit run sells (aka: sells purchased by gil or, for all I care, other trade-offs ingame using ingame currency/means) shouldnt be blamed and blanted statments like "Run selling is (always) RMT or promotes RMT" dont sit right with me. Because you can argue that expensive items on the marketboard promote RMT just as much as run sells do since no one without level 70 crafters can possibly have the gil to pay for those things.

[Tint]

I'm not arguing that the current trend of selling runs for real money isnt wrong and worrying - however legit run sells (aka: sells purchased by gil or, for all I care, other trade-offs ingame using ingame currency/means) shouldnt be blamed and blanted statments like "Run selling is (always) RMT or promotes RMT" dont sit right with me. Because you can argue that expensive items on the marketboard promote RMT just as much as run sells do since no one without level 70 crafters can possibly have the gil to pay for those things.

yes, expenisve items on the market board promote RMT. housing promotes RMT. and kill sellers promote RMT.

just because there is more than kill selling wich promotes RMT, doesn't make kill selling (for gil) any better in that regard.

[Vnolan]

I've gotten the impression that the argument "run selling is promoting RMT" is most often used by people who dont like run selling...

https://imgur.com/a/i8NtK
https://imgur.com/a/v6qps

Again, the info was found within seconds of searching the discord info on Google. That same discord info was used in a pf listing advertising Unending coil sales across the data center with the duty being listed as Expert Roulette.

In game money only? Cant see the real problem with that.

Still?

[Istaru]

Still?

I still don’t care about people buying clears of content with money they made legitimately. Why should I? Every challenge in this game is on a straight path to zero challenge. This doesn’t change that fact, never has, and it never will.

[Vidu]

Still?

I saw the screenshots in your OP, dont worry.

But yes: I still dont see the problem with run selling for legit ingame earned gil.
I agree with this run selling for real money being a problem - but I wasnt arguing about that but rather against those who dont like run selling at all and are using scammy things like this as an excuse to ban run-selling at all. And thats something I do not agree with.
Again: I'm not a fan of it myself, I never bought a run and I never made gil from selling runs. But I can accept that even people who dont like gathering/crafting need a source of income and that run-selling is just as much a service as selling crafted goods or crafting-leveling-kits (something the person I argued against ironically considers perfectly legit and "working as intended" when one could say "There are no crafting-level-jump-potions on the mogstation, so that has to mean that the intended way to play is to level your crafters yourself")

All I wanna do here is to remind people that run selling for ingame currency is legitimate. You dont have to like it personally, neither do I. But it is something we have to tolerate and to claim that everyone who buys runs also buys the gil to pay for it, is wrong. The argument that run selling promotes RMT is just as right as saying that the Black Pegasus promotes RMT, yet no one argues about removing the Black Pegasus. Or argues to put a cap on item prices (as in: you cant sell item XY for more than 2 million gil) because we accept that its a free market. To me a service like run selling is just as much part of that free market - "But there isnt a 'market board' for run-selling, so it must be wrong!" - There isnt a 'market board' to recruit for FCs either. Or to offer your service als crafter. Or to find LS. Just because its something players organise themsel doesnt make it automatically wrong.

Again: I do not support run selling for real money.
However I do consider run selling for legit, ingame earned gil fine. Yes, still.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

Fair point...but you have one major flaw.

These guys are selling runs "cross-world"

Which leads to a list of questions...in-game currency transfer is not a thing...and even with whats there is VERY limited.
Same server/world? Ok you got me there..legit yes.
But these "ads" are cross-worlds.

[Odstarva]

You can argue, but you'd be wrong. There isn't a "trade for service" function in the game, those are player-made agreements.
The only situation where I've seen GMs intervene in such agreements is when it comes to crafting comissions (when the provider refuses to deliver / scams the client).

It doesn't apply to run-selling - if the game was intended to be played like that, there'd be a bot players could pay X amount of gil to have content completed / earn rewards.
And! There are such similar systems in place already (like trading the weekly alliance raid reward for upgrade parts). The very reason they added savage on the side was so players could experience the story, while others get to participate in more difficult content. What's the purpose of that when you're allowing people to skip that as well?


This is coming from someone who doesn't even do high-tier raiding (or who does so very rarely). I'm not even a part of the players that bust their nuts getting good at the game and completing really difficult content - and even I can see this is a blatant misuse of the system.

But even then, I can stay quiet (even if I don't like it), except groups are now selling this content for actual money.
And even -if- you wanted to do the whole argument of "what about glamour!" well, just because you can find more forms of RMT it doesn't make this particular activity any less dirty (or less guilty). Because it is. And the only reason it bothers you is because this is your source of gil.