Question to players

[Darrcyphfeid]

I already don't run Expert anymore or use PF to farm EX primals... I'm already out enough of the system as is...

I probably wouldn't have put it the way Kazrah did myself, but I don't entirely disagree with them either. Regardless, just offering a view as to specifically why the context of the OP could be immediately off-putting to someone.

Is this a better idea? The majority says no on this day and I can accept that when it's got foundation and thought behind it. But please don't jump to the conclusion that I'm trying to wish doom upon 'ye casuals' because that certainly isn't the case.

I would hazard a guess that Kazrah was replying more to the OP than your additional restrictions, though I'm not them and can't say with any certainty.

In either case, my opinion is simply what's contained within those first two posts - nothing more, nothing less. I view this as an exercise in game theory more than a forum for trying to change opinions, and again I would not have phrased it as Kazrah did.

As for the system we have being perfect? Not really. But it's as fair of one as you're probably going to get, because it doesn't have pitfalls like the aforementioned tank disparity and won't result in further inflated queue times by keeping players contained to their rank. Once you've allowed bronze and silver to play together, or silver and gold, you've effectively slid back to this current system as well.

[Reinha]

The basis of my idea isn't to separate 'goods' and 'bads', rather the hope was to try and channel like minded people into groups as to try and cut down on the occurrences where you've got 3 people champing at the bit with a 4th who has no hope of ever keeping up. That's every bit as bad as the worst case scenario's you're claiming, and it happens right now as things are. Don't pretend that the current system is all roses because it isn't.

Your propose this system under the assumption that people would like to be divided into groups and play only with similar players. But that isn't what everyone wants. I for one don't want to be separated from players more or less skilled than me, even if there was some accurate way to judge skill (there isn't). It makes the roulette more exciting and sometimes reminds me what it's like to be new and struggle. The option for like-minded company exists in the form of premade parties.

Edit. Looks like I mixed up you and the thread creator, apologies.

[Tridus]

I also truly believe that anyone who actually does want such a system should know that they're playing the wrong game and will always be worse not just as players, but as people, compared to any newer player who may still have room to improve.

That is overstating it dramatically. People have good intentions here: they want people to be paired up with like minded players more often. Groups where 3 people want to speed kill mass pull and the healer can't keep up are frustrating for everyone, as are groups where the tank & healer *can* do it and the DPS are too slow, or one DPS is miles ahead of the other, and such.

I think doing it is a poor idea for reasons I've already outlined, but there's nothing here to suggest it's some kind of nefarious plot. We can keep it civil.

[akaneakki]

T
I think doing it is a poor idea for reasons I've already outlined, but there's nothing here to suggest it's some kind of nefarious plot. We can keep it civil.

This is easily why you and few others actually are so highly respected by me. First of all you have very good and valid arguements againt's the system. Second, I'm completely fine with people being again'ts it, hence why I asked. I'm not here to bash people and let them say hey YOU HAVE TO AGREE WITH ME!! Third, you are absoluttely right, this system is something more about playing with like minded people more often too, not to prevent people doing content. Hey some peopel do say they want to have a relax atmosphere in the game and do things slower, so why not pair them up together? But yeah I agree with you.

[Infindox]

Suggestion: make a completely separate roulette for it or have a toggable option for the roulettes to do it. You can use it if you want to, turn it off if you don't.

That would bring up the debate that then everyone would use it and not help again but I'm sure there's plenty of people (like myself) that would just keep it off.

[Darrcyphfeid]

Suggestion: make a completely separate roulette for it or have a toggable option for the roulettes to do it. You can use it if you want to, turn it off if you don't.

That would bring up the debate that then everyone would use it and not help again but I'm sure there's plenty of people (like myself) that would just keep it off.

So long as the toggle was off by default, turning the toggle on would absolutely result in longer queue times. People get vocal about it online and in their FCs and LSs, but I'm quite certain the overwhelming majority of the playerbase doesn't care about 3~5 minutes being shaved off a clear time or otherwise carrying a lackluster player.

Pretty sure the additional length of the queue would outweigh leaving the option off as well, even for people that get really vocal about their runs.

[Cakekizyy]

You say you don't wanna separate good from bad, but filtering for likeminded can only have that result in my view.

[Kaurhz]

No. The idea of a preformed party is that you play with like-minded players. If you only want like-minded, go preformed, simples.

There's legitimate players who play with disability, or any other disadvantage, so they can't perform as effectively as other players even if they tried their best. So pairing them with someone who doesn't try isn't fair on a player who does try. As has been mentioned people do commonly play with several classes so it wouldn't really be an effective system based on that alone. What about friends that play together? One is of a 'bronze' ranking, and the other of a 'gold' ranking. Some people play simply to play with friends regardless of how skilled, or unskilled they may be.

More importantly, it's a casual gaming experience so there's no need to attach a ranking system which would only further divide a community of players very heavily. Again, if you only want to play with like-minded people then you setup a preformed party for the majority of content you take seriously, you save both sides of the party the unpleasant experience. I play to enjoy myself, and a passtime when I have nothing better to do, so whether a dungeon takes 15 minutes or 30 minutes, matters not. Whether I 1 shot a difficult trial, or whether it requires several attempts.

Again, the last thing an MMO needs IMO, especially one aimed for a casual playerbase is a divide in communities thanks to a leaderboard.

Do you supposed 'golden boys and girls' wish to divide queues? Bear in mind, that you'd be in the minority, and not majority. Have fun with that experience.

[msfakefur]

Besides all the other flaws people have pointed out there’s also the problem of different gameplay within the community. What makes a smooth run for the JP datacenter may not be so for the NA datacenter (not having wall to wall pulls, not stance dancing, etc). So, would every datacenter have it’s own rules to what make one a gold? Or, if such a thing were to be implemented, it would probably follow the standard set on the JP datacenter?

[DeaconMoore]

Let's say this game was based on ranking. So you have either bronze, silver and gold ranks. So those ranks are spread on:
How much damage you do
Healing on time
Not over healing too much.
DPS actually use a rotatio and do damage as they should do, hence dps.
Tanks using cooldowns proppely, holding aggro
Healers dpsing
Tanks doing a decent amount of damage.

Now let's pretend you are very good so you end up with silver and gold rank players, but if you are bad you end up with only bronze players. Which means people who do blizzard spam etc in dungeons, healers clicking every 10 seconds. Yes even farm groups will end up you being with the same skilled people, so you have 5 wipes a row in farms then maybe 1-2 kill between. Would this be unfair for you all? Or would it be fair?
Basically you have a huge chance of ending up with same minded players, so if you don't aoe in dungeons, you will meet the same type of players in dungeons.

For PvP purposes placing people of similar skill level together makes sense to give them a chance to figure things out before they get roflcoptered into the ground.

For PvE purposes I'd troll the crap outta your group for the giggles alone with this system. And remember no complaining while I do it, we'd be the same "rank" after all, so I know what I'm doing and you need to get with the program.