Why do you fail at Hashmal?

[Lilseph]

Hashmal is the only reason I ever use Rescue (And last boss). Whenever I see my people on the other side for the flaming arm or on the wrong side of the arena for the sand spheres: Rescue. Also on the last boss, to drag the people with the confusion move to the small safe spot on the edge, almost at the end of the fight. Clearly after the confusion effect wears off.

[Sieben79]

At last the Earth Hammer:



Often you can see this happen at the raid: People running to the far edge to minimize damage (behind the green line). The orange line means medium damage and red is instant death. For the solo (or first) Earth Hammer it's the right decission. For the Triple one not, because of the purple AOE which comes after. People in the orange area take medium damage (with shields or self damage reduction not too much; Mana Shield yay!) but can easily avoid or react to the purple AOEs , while the grouped players only have one direction and often place a death trap for the others. Either sprint (if you haven't sprint used before) or die.

[Cheremia]

Just tell people, that have problems with the confuse part and the savespot, to spam a move button until they go into the right direction.
That will help them more with learning how to get past it instead of trying to hit the right direction in one go. Doing that since i noticed it works, never died to that mechanic ever again and i have slow reaction time and the spinning finger makes me dizzy, so i gave up on trying at first. But spinning till i'm right works.

[Raim]

Biggest killers by far for Hashmal:
-People you run in the same direction as the person marked with the red ground AoE
-Ranged not stacking close for AoE heals and dying to Quake and other various roomwide AoE

[silverlunarfox]

...but no, the casual player base in general really isn't that good. Mayhaps a representative of this player base can explain things to me?

I'd like to address this as a misconception. Casual doesn't mean bad. I am a casual player but I am very good at the classes I play and with mechanics. Yes, sometimes you will screw up a mechanic. EVERYONE will do this at some point. It's how you bounce back from it that will show how good you are, and how well you work with a TEAM. Yes, you will always have bad players. But that in no means, means they are casuals. I've known some "hardcore" players that can play just as poorly as a newbie. So please do not lump all bad players into people who enjoy the game for what it is and have a good time while doing it.

As for Hashmal, alot of times theres just too much going down. Tanking and DPS is probably the easiest to do, while Healing tends to be where people die the most trying to heal DPS who just absorb every damage mechanic or trying to rez their team or other players. It requires a delicate balance of healing/rezzing and situational awareness that not everyone is capable of on some days. We all have good days and bad days. I had a healer on my team last night eat a couple columns. But she was a good healer and bounced back from each death spectacularly.

If more people took the time to help people I think these runs would go alot smoother and alot more people would know the fight more intimately, and not just of the floor...helping not just with the 24 man raid in general, but in dungeons, in primals, helping with classes and giving tips and tricks if you see something awry. No you can't help everyone but it could mean one less poorly performing player in the future!

[Alisi]

I resurrect other alliance healers only if either my group is doing fine, swiftcast is ready or it's totally safe to hard cast. It's no good for you to ignore the next mechanic for a res because you can die to it or the hard res gonna be interrupted. In between your party can also die, you have to wait for the right moment. If you're dead, be patient

I didn't say 'obviously, don't heal the other alliance while neglecting your own' because I felt that was self explanatory. To an extent. If all three alliances are suffering and I see one has wholly collapsed, I will send a rev to the healer(s) over one of our DPS. Healers are more of a priority to stabilize a bad situation and bring the group back from a near wipe. Was in an alliance raid the other day. Two of the alliances were down and half of ours was dead. Managed to get the other alliances up and running, and all of our own as well, and didn't wipe. It feels great to do that.

[KaivaC]

snip

Alright, fair enough. Allow me to retort. If it were 2 or 3 players, I can promise that this thread would not have been created (by me, at least). I will throw out help if someone needs or asks for it. My issue is not with the few, but when entire alliances get wiped out, repeatedly, I might add; I start to wonder what the problem is. I know hardcore players who are in full ilvl340 who repeatedly fail over and over again to O1S slides. But that's Savage, and that's an issue somebody would have to take up if they wanted to speak on it. I was only talking about content that everybody accesses normally. If this was just about a few players, I'd be venting about it in the Tales from the Duty Finder lol.

Keep in mind, I'm not posting this just because I've only seen it happen once or twice. I see it happening very consistently - I usually get maybe two good runs out of a month, then Hashmal becomes a problem all over again. And for those bad runs, it's not just a couple player - it's usually a majority of a single alliance or, in one very special case, about half of the entire raid messed up and we all died to his Ultimate.

[silverlunarfox]

snip

Thousands of players play the game, it will never be just 2 or 3 players. Don't just wait for someone to ask for help. Make points (politely) to aid others. Alot of people I've run into are in that 340 gear but maybe never noticed a trick to a mechanic, or a certain way to tweak their rotation etc. Sometimes things are just overlooked. That coupled with job boosts now its more of an issue. But its not a bad thing if people help others. Yes normally when you run a 24 man you'll have a higher chance of coming across people who may not be the best at the game. But that doesn't mean they can't be! I've worked with plenty of bad alliances (and beyond hope alliances I must admit) that got better with guidance and help, and you know what thats 7 other players (on a bad night) that now can run the content even better than before! We help shape the community. Just calling out and asking why are people so bad/or fail work against the community.

You have to look at it from the standpoint Hashmal does alot of damage and does it relatively quickly combined with one shot insta deaths. It's very easy to screw up more so than most content aside from savage. Typically in savage, you know from the get go if a group will work or not. With a 24 man, you can mostly, mostly cheese Mateus to get to Hashmal. So many, even new players are unprepared for the steep increase in difficulty. At first you may be thinking, oh this party is going to be great! (I always think of Lucio with that.....) Then Hashmal appears and everyone is dead. Even for seasoned vets whom I've also seen take a column or wing to the face. In the end, stuff happens, bad luck and placement happens, and everyone dying happens. Again, as in my previous post, its how you bounce back and learn from the fight that makes the difference.

[Sieben79]

Alright, fair enough. Allow me to retort. If it were 2 or 3 players, I can promise that this thread would not have been created (by me, at least). I will throw out help if someone needs or asks for it. My issue is not with the few, but when entire alliances get wiped out, repeatedly, I might add; I start to wonder what the problem is. I know hardcore players who are in full ilvl340 who repeatedly fail over and over again to O1S slides. But that's Savage, and that's an issue somebody would have to take up if they wanted to speak on it. I was only talking about content that everybody accesses normally. If this was just about a few players, I'd be venting about it in the Tales from the Duty Finder lol.

Keep in mind, I'm not posting this just because I've only seen it happen once or twice. I see it happening very consistently - I usually get maybe two good runs out of a month, then Hashmal becomes a problem all over again. And for those bad runs, it's not just a couple player - it's usually a majority of a single alliance or, in one very special case, about half of the entire raid messed up and we all died to his Ultimate.

I think people die because of herds mentality. In other 24-Raids or boss fights there are safe spots, where every player goes if specific mechanics happen, but the Hashmal fight punish you if you go where all other goes. Beware of Refugium, Collective Unconscious or Sacred Coil after the Tripel Hammer. People who don't know this fight think it's safe because the Healer decided to place it there, but all what awaits is death

Also there are first timers or people second or third run. We don't know. Maybe you're just unlucky with your teams.
My own experience ratio with hashmal ist 70/30 where 70 are the good runs without a wipe. The ratio of runs without deaths ist 10/90 and after about 100+ of runs (because of gear farming) even I die to a tower because I underestimated it and will die to it (playing mostly Blackmage).

[KaivaC]

snip

There's only so much help that one can give. Put it this way, even on the occasions when I do voice my help, it's usually drowned out by others ridiculing all who caused the wipe, or there are vote abandon spams, or even rage quits. I'm not even viewing this as a raider, but as a former casual player. Let me throw in another example, one I have used before. In Baelsar's Wall, that second boss with the 'Extreme Caution debuff'...if I kindly explain, after a wipe, that you shouldn't move or take any action as soon as you get hit with the 'Extreme Caution debuff' (i.e. you get three red circles surrounding you), and two further wipes later, a majority of the party still dies to that, there's an issue. Let's not bring up the language, because in those two runs I've had there, they spoke the same language as I just fine. It's things like that that make me wary of offering advice because, what's the point if people in general will not listen, no matter how politely you put it.

It's the same with Rabanastre. In the first month, most people listened because most people wanted to get through the rest of the raid. I'm not suggesting I didn't see those moments with rage quitters, toxicity, and vote abandon spams, because that's pretty much everywhere throughout MMOs. Nowadays, no matter how nicely you explain it, no matter how detailed or how well it is explained, it still happens in the exact same run, leading to most of the raid finally caving in and voting to abandon. One bad night does not equate what seems like Hashmal fights hitting a very massive wall more often than not currently. Granted, everybody's experience is very different. I'm on the Aether Datacentre, so it could be different on Primal, or maybe, just maybe, I'm just unlucky enough to be seeing these runs more often than others. I don't know.