Why do you fail at Hashmal?

[Cheremia]

But all of them are avoidable if you pay attention and... actually do the mechanics?
Is it bad that it punishes you with dying if you, yourself, don't move out of the way? I don't see it as oneshot in itself because it does NOT kill you instantly if youa ctually manage to... move. Like, what else should not doing anything do? Faceroll the whole thing without ever doing a mechanic?

Pillars are one thing where i think its fine to die on sometimes. Hashmal IS big and if you're positioned wrong and don#t see the pillar cut behind him and the other one is directly in your face- one falling on you can happen. Or you get hit by a pixel.
Bleed kills you if you don't move, your fault (not factoring in not being able to see the fire ont he arm)
Rock cutter kills you because youre taking a tankbuster and if the tank tries their best to move it away but you/dps dance around in front anyways, your fault. Theres only so much a tank can do if the majority is in one spot and the rest is in front of Hashmal, too.
Earth hammer kills you because you weren't able to follow the boss, that moves away with the tank. For whatever reason. Your fault.
You CAN survive 2 exploding orbs on a good day, if all 3 explode, everybody does something wrong. Only seen more than 1 explode on the first week of the raid.
Doube stack marker: The straggler does EVERYTHING wrong and the dying alliance pays for it.

Being punished for doing nothing just isn't bad design, i don't think ozma is a problem, i don't think Scathach is aproblem, i don't think anything punishing is a problem. Its fun if you actually have to pay attention instead of just standing at one spot the whole fight because regen-ticks are enough to keep you alive.

Edit: Thanks qoute for not working apparently. Was for you, Tridus

[Tridus]

But all of them are avoidable if you pay attention and... actually do the mechanics?
Is it bad that it punishes you with dying if you, yourself, don't move out of the way? I don't see it as oneshot in itself because it does NOT kill you instantly if youa ctually manage to... move. Like, what else should not doing anything do? Faceroll the whole thing without ever doing a mechanic?

Never said it wasn't. But an encounter where everything one shots you if you fail it is a somewhat limited design. We've got that because burst healing is so strong that anything in these fights that doesn't one shot you simply isn't that dangerous, which goes back to what we were talking about a couple of pages ago.

Hashmal has lots of deaths and wipes because most of what he does is fatal. The other bosses tend to do nonlethal damage in one hit, so you need to fail multiple things very close together to die, or fail so many things that you stack vuln up enough times that it becomes lethal. Because they tend to do damage with mechanics that are spaced out, you're usually back at full after failing one and before the next one, so it's not a big deal. Same as pretty much everything in expert.

That's where the issue is. Doing moderate damage once and then doing no damage for a few seconds isn't terribly dangerous because the healers can burst the entire group back to full in that time relatively easily. So to actually threaten people, stuff has to be lethal or it has to come so fast that it can outdo our extremely strong burst healing.

People have so many problems with Hashmal compared to the others because it skews so heavily in the direction of one shots, and the healers can't effectively save people getting hit the way they can on the other fights. You put enough humans together and some of them will screw stuff up, because that's how groups of humans are.

Being punished for doing nothing just isn't bad design, i don't think ozma is a problem, i don't think Scathach is aproblem, i don't think anything punishing is a problem. Its fun if you actually have to pay attention instead of just standing at one spot the whole fight because regen-ticks are enough to keep you alive.

But see, that's my overall point. Healing shouldn't be so strong that you *can* eat everything and regen is enough to keep you alive. That's the problem. If healing is less powerful, standing around eating everything is going to whittle your HP down and eventually kill you without it being a one shot, because the healers won't be able to bring you back up to full so easily. That lets encounters be risky in terms of incoming damage without having to resort to one shots all over the place.

[Cheremia]

Well i don't see it as a problem in design but you've got a fair point anyways. Don#t need to have the same opinion for that, you think it is, i think its not really.
Just saying that, if you pay attention, you should not die. Or at least minimal deaths. Nobody expects you to be a god behind a screen.

Funnily enough, the most i'm dying is during the fish(dude, don't know the name ) when the add freezes me because i mistake the iceskater for anything but that. But that can be healed through if the other healer notices...


The problem is just, how would you balance, say... Whm so its actually dangerous? I don't mind oneshot mechanics as whm at all. I don't mind throwing a Medica 2 through quacke and be done with it, either.
The Game just doesn't punish people enough for not doing mechanics. And Hashmal does.


And like i said, bad design are mechanics you can't really do because they either work or not -crush helm, the debuff does whatever it wants because the esuna cast time is actually too long and server latency and all that. The Hp either drops minimal, or a lot, even if you do not esuna the debuff.
or can be cheesed to the point its not even a mechanic anymore- confuse on the last boss by spamming your move button
or the ones that are just plain out wrong - scatter
at least for ME.

Edit: Holy hell my qoute button literally does not work at work, but its Still for you tridus, i didn't expect all these posts...

[Tridus]

Well i don't see it as a problem in design but you've got a fair point anyways. Don#t need to have the same opinion for that, you think it is, i think its not really.

Yep, that's fair.

Just saying that, if you pay attention, you should not die. Or at least minimal deaths. Nobody expects you to be a god behind a screen.

While that's also true, the data on this fight shows a LOT of deaths. So, what should be and what actually are don't line up. A lot of the playerbase finds this to be a difficult fight.

Funnily enough, the most i'm dying is during the fish(dude, don't know the name ) when the add freezes me because i mistake the iceskater for anything but that. But that can be healed through if the other healer notices...

If you don't stand on the ice and people aren't failing something else, you should never be frozen.

The problem is just, how would you balance, say... Whm so its actually dangerous? I don't mind oneshot mechanics as whm at all. I don't mind throwing a Medica 2 through quacke and be done with it, either.
The Game just doesn't punish people enough for not doing mechanics. And Hashmal does.

I'd reduce all healing effects in the game by a third (and rebalance fights appropriately as needed). Someone taking 25k in avoidable damage, while not lethal to a geared character, should be a bad thing that takes real effort to recover from. It doesn't right now. Moro and I coheal Rabanastre together weekly and combined we can bring the entire group back up from 1hp to full in less than 5 seconds. Then we go back to DPSing. Moro thinks that's just fine, I tend to see it as an issue with how healing works.

And like i said, bad design are mechanics you can't really do because they either work or not -crush helm, the debuff does whatever it wants because the esuna cast time is actually too long and server latency and all that. The Hp either drops minimal, or a lot, even if you do not esuna the debuff.
or can be cheesed to the point its not even a mechanic anymore- confuse on the last boss by spamming your move button
or the ones that are just plain out wrong - scatter
at least for ME.

Yeah there's some wonky stuff in there. Figuring out what that last boss actually wants you to do was a hassle, although it's not quite as bad now that the text was changed to be less misleading.