Why do you fail at Hashmal?

[Tridus]

It's so 1-shot prone because healing is too strong. Most stuff in expert doesn't one shot you and the result is that healers can just drag people through it, because it's so easy to burst everyone back to full HP. If stuff in Hashmal doesn't kill you, us healers would just heal you back up in seconds and you'd never die.

They need to significantly nerf all healing output if we want to see more fights that can really threaten you without one shotting you.

[AxlStream]

They need to significantly nerf all healing output if we want to see more fights that can really threaten you without one shotting you.

You realise that would make some Savage encounters near impossible right? I wouldn't want to do Neo Exdeath's Almagest where everything is spent while our healers are nerfed because the content for the casuals is too easy.

[MoroMurasaki]

You realise that would make some Savage encounters near impossible right? I wouldn't want to do Neo Exdeath's Almagest where everything is spent while our healers are nerfed because the content for the casuals is too easy.

I feel like it's clear that Tridis' suggestion of a nerf to healing potency would require adjustments to Savage damage output as well. To suggest otherwise simply because something obvious wasn't explicitly stated seems sort of nearsighted to me.

[AxlStream]

I feel like it's clear that Tridis' suggestion of a nerf to healing potency would require adjustments to Savage damage output as well. To suggest otherwise simply because something obvious wasn't explicitly stated seems sort of nearsighted to me.

Can't be too careful. I doubt many forum players even do savage so they might not be aware of the harder hitting things in the game and basing their experiences only on the faceroll content.

[MoroMurasaki]

Can't be too careful. I doubt many forum players even do savage so they might not be aware of the harder hitting things in the game and basing their experiences only on the faceroll content.

Fair. I suppose I have more context because I know Tridus. That being said I am sure the suggestion isn't to make faceroll more challenging at the expense of Savage raiders even though from what I understand about Savage this tier some people might actually prefer a difficulty bump xD

[Zojha]

You realise that would make some Savage encounters near impossible right?

It would - To be more precise, it would make every healing check that is based on the current strength of healers impossible, because the strength it's based on is gone. That's like having a fight that requires a silence and then removing silence from the game.

No big issue if it's just "one" fight, but the entire game is plagued by that.

Still no big issue for a vertical progression game like this, because you can fix that going forward without touching old content - You simply ramp up the health/VIT scaling. 20k healing on 20k HP is a full heal, 20k healing on 200k HP is only 10%, 40k damage on 20k HP overkill and 40k on 200k only 20%. It's uglier than going for a one-whole approach, but it's quite doable.

[AxlStream]

It would - To be more precise, it would make every healing check that is based on the current strength of healers impossible, because the strength it's based on is gone. That's like having a fight that requires a silence and then removing silence from the game.

No big issue if it's just "one" fight, but the entire game is plagued by that.

Still no big issue for a vertical progression game like this, because you can fix that going forward without touching old content - You simply ramp up the health/VIT scaling. 20k healing on 20k HP is a full heal, 20k healing on 200k HP is only 10%, 40k damage on 20k HP overkill and 40k on 200k only 20%. It's uglier than going for a one-whole approach, but it's quite doable.

But then you mess with the HP checks and tankbusters we have as well. No point fearing Halicarnassus's Critical Hit if I have 200K HP as it'll hardly hit me for more than 70K already without cooldowns.

The best solution is what Ameela said, make every other content turn up the damage a notch.

[Zojha]

But then you mess with the HP checks and tankbusters we have as well.

You're messing with it, sure - But you're messing with it every single time you upgrade a piece of gear, every even patch when the iLvL gets raised, every expansion when unsynced comes along.

I see no issues "messing" with old content so long as it doesn't make it impossible to clear, it's old content. And if you go min-iLvL for the challenge? Well, you'll get your old HP values and properly fear that mechanic again.

In case you misunderstood: Ramping up the health scaling means newly introduced items get relatively more VIT to gradually increase the gap, not that you suddenly give every item thrice as much VIT overnight. New items already give you more VIT, they already make old mechanics lose their sting, go back into O1-4 at the end of SB and you'll have an easy time seeing as much (or just run some unsynced coil for the lulz). You simply accelerate that process until healing is relatively weaker.

[Tridus]

You realise that would make some Savage encounters near impossible right? I wouldn't want to do Neo Exdeath's Almagest where everything is spent while our healers are nerfed because the content for the casuals is too easy.

Yes. You'd need to rebalance most of the encounters in the game. But the point is to give more options than "do damage that isn't threatening at all", "do continuous damage fast enough that it's threatening", and "one shot people". Burst healing is so strong that the kind of periodic damage you see in experts is no threat whatsoever for a healer that's awake. Take Zenos. He likes to sit there if the fight goes long and spam Concentravity. Which is nice and all, except it's absolutely no threat whatsoever because it's extremely easy for the healers in this game to heal you back to full when he does it. So even he casts another one two seconds later, who cares?

WoW had this same problem back in the Wrath of the Lich King era, and they responded to it in Cataclysm* by dramatically increasing HP pools while not increasing HPS, effectively making it harder and slower to heal someone to full. That opens up options for fights where damage might not be lethal the instant it hits you, but because it takes more than three seconds to get your HP back up, the hits coming later may prove problematic.

Rabanastre is plagued by this, where you have damage that either one shots people (Hashmal) or damage that doesn't one shot people (both bosses after Hashmal), and on the latter ones people tend to not die as often simply because healers can get you fully recovered from any survivable hit before the next one.

*There was some pushback on it in Cataclym because lots of people didn't like the change, but I tend to think it worked better than what came before it.