Why do you fail at Hashmal?

[Tridus]

You have ten seconds of invulnerability after a raise that is canceled if you use any skill or ability. Wait a couple seconds after getting back on your feet so the healers can top you up.

^ Your healers want you to know this. If you don't push any buttons except moving, you will not get instakilled after taking a raise. Please give us a couple seconds to get your health back up, especially if you're not the only one who died.

[Fynlar]

But all of them are avoidable if you pay attention and... actually do the mechanics?

No shit 1-shots are avoidable if you know what to do and are constantly situationally aware of it. For the people that aren't though, having everything just kill you is not really the best definition of a good learning curve.

[Llugen]

I didn't read most of the thread, but to answer the title question, I notice players dodging the double command towers in the last phase and then forget that there are also the purple AOEs going out at the same time, so they stand in them and die. Then, when the healers are dead, the party can't be healed up for Quake IV. This is usually how I end up dying.


Cheers.

[DevonEllwood]

I got to go into Rabanastre for the first time I think on Saturday. t was this fight that cased people to start dropping.I really wish I could tell you how a casual takes the fight on, but I couldn't tell what was going on. My computer was never meant as a gaming computer (it was for college and I am getting a year old gaming computer soon) and my frame rate generally sits at around 16. For some reason, the bosses in this raid drop it even below that making the fights more difficult than it needs to be. I won't be going back in until I get my new computer, but some people (and I mean some) may be in the same boat....just playing on a potato that needs to be retired. Maybe I should have just dumped this into the duty finder thread to apologize.

[KaivaC]

snip

Oh yay! I can post again! No reason to apologize. I'm not referencing first or second timers in my original post. Though it may seem that way, my comments were largely directed at players who have more than enough experience in this fight, and yet as an alliance, die together to the same things over and over again. No worries...

Also, I understand the whole aspect with your computer - my laptop could barely handle fighting Garuda. My FPS were fine, but it would get pretty hot, and that wasn't a risk I was willing to chance, so I ended up getting a PS4. (Helps that there were other games I wanted for it too). Maybe not the best option, because you have to buy a new license, but an option nonetheless.

[Theodric]

Unfortunately a lot of players simply lack situational awareness. You see it a lot in Rival Wings. Even though enemy mechs are clearly displayed on the map it's possible for nobody in an alliance to notice them until after they've blasted a tower into rubble or charged right into their base to assault the core.

[TaleraRistain]

One thing is the massive number of insta-kills in that fight. You can get crushed by a tower if you don't move the right way quick enough. Or you think you move the right way on the double fall and move right into the path of the other one. Someone can crowd you in with red circles of death you just keep getting hit by until you die. You can get REALLY boned if you're the group by the door and he does his flaming arm on that side, since groups are encouraged to stay by markers as much as possible to be ready for sand spheres and to be in the right areas for golems. That one really hurts because the attack doesn't kill you. It's that fast-acting debuff. People can live if you can get it cleansed quick enough, but it's a very slim window.

Another thing is the murder dominoes that can happen with just one mistake from a single player. Someone from A brings their stack mechanic over to B's spot? That whole party goes down. Or as I mentioned with the red circles of death, someone crowding multiple people and giving them nowhere safe to run.

A third thing I've noticed is lag. I call this raid Laganastre because at some point nearly every raid, someone goes "Is anyone else lagging?" in either party chat or alliance and a chorus of "You too?" or "Yep" follows them. I usually only see it on Mateus, but occasionally Hashmal as well. And lag in that fight along with the mechanics it can cause you to mess up can be a raid killer.

[SaitoHikari]

The guy has way more AoEs and outgoing damage than any other boss in the raid. Not only that, but it seems several AoEs are outwardly designed to bait players into other AoEs. It's a rude awakening to most players - there's a reason why I consider Hashmal to be harder than O1S, for instance. The fight basically treats the entire alliance like a set of dominoes. One mistake can knock out a third of the alliance, if not more. People targeted by the circle AoEs could end up cutting off other players' escape routes through poor positioning (especially during dash + AoE combo), and the other players die through no real fault of their own. If the player that died because someone else cut off their escape route happens to be a healer or the top DPS in the alliance, or even worse, the main tank... Oh, boy.

I find most wipes, if they don't happen due to exploding sand orbs, tend to occur during the distance-based hammer + red circles combo, resulting in the adds that spawn immediately afterwards cleaning house with the rest of the alliance. This happens because everyone doesn't properly stack in time, meaning people that DO stack get caught in the AoEs of anyone targeted that didn't stack as they try to escape. Saving sprint for this situation allows one to easily escape, but many players don't seem to realize that.

It's not bad design by any means. But it actually is the kind of fight that you'd expect from a lower tier Savage raid.

As an aside to Bards: Pay attention when the dash is happening. You might be able to save someone caught in the dash with your Warden's Paean. Warden's Paean turns the attack from a near instant kill to a very high damaging AoE. Usually, a healer doesn't have any time at all to heal or remove the bleeding debuff before it ticks and the player dies, but a Bard can outright prevent the bleeding debuff from taking hold.

[KaivaC]

snip

Fair points. That brings up a mild thought that I've had before - I am wary, but curious what a next level of 24-mans would be like. Pure chaos, I imagine, but a 24-man on a Savage/EX level of difficulty interests me, though I'm sure it would be like Ultimate Bahamut-lite in terms of how difficult it is and how many players would actually play it.

[TaleraRistain]

It's not bad design by any means. But it actually is the kind of fight that you'd expect from a lower tier Savage raid.

As an aside to Bards: Pay attention when the dash is happening. You might be able to save someone caught in the dash with your Warden's Paean. Warden's Paean turns the attack from a near instant kill to a very high damaging AoE. Usually, a healer doesn't have any time at all to heal or remove the bleeding debuff before it ticks and the player dies, but a Bard can outright prevent the bleeding debuff from taking hold.

Totally agree on the first point. I enjoy the fight, but it does seem out of place in a 24 man.

And I normally whm but I've run brd sometimes when friends wanted to heal and your last statement is on point. I've been able to save people by getting that off them asap with WP or preventing it beforehand. Even when I'm ready as a whm, it can be difficult to get Esuna to hit at just that right moment because the debuff is hella fast acting.