Minimum ilvl of dungeons

[hamond]

Vendors gear are just as expensive as market board gears. Case closed.

[RokkuEkkusu]

The max ilevel should be lowered to end this ridiculous argument. The content is all too easy, healer would rather dps than heal. All people care about is the tiny few minutes difference for a dungeon. This is players been spoiled. For what a maximum benefit of a few minutes. You kidding me? You see fit to kick a dps that has to wait 30 min for a dungeon. You know dps dont get adventurer in need bonus, some people dont have the time to farm for gils. If this is your attitude stop queuing for roulette with randoms, go with your mates. You obviously dont want to play with other players. What makes you think your view is shared by every member of the team and of the playerbase and what makes you rule over others? Wake up, you dont. Chances are you probably acted like a spoiled brat and stood there refuse to do anything until the person is kicked and the only other member choose you over the weaker player.

I think the issue at hand is that the dungeons from 51-59 and 61-69 DO NOT have item level requirements. So a dps with full set on item level 90 gear on the left side could end up in the Vault and get one-shotted by Ser Adelphel's sword dance when he/she gets targeted (aggro has NO EFFECT on the shield bash + sword dance move.)

On the other hand, mandatory level 50 dungeons (Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake) and level 60 dungeons (Antitower, Sohr Khai, Xelphatol, and Baelsar's Wall) DO have item level requirements. This minimizes people from being really undergeared as badly as the example I mentioned above.

It is most definitely not harassment. Your going way overboard and not just crossing the line. If anything your action to dismiss is bullying and harassment. You should be removed from the game.

You can get ironworks at lvl 50, hailstorm and shire at 60. but you wouldnt be able to get a set for the dungeons inbetween, the drops are too inconsistent you'll be way over level and require higher gear by the time you get a full set. Your primary and second class will have gils and euipment from msq your 3rd class will not.

You need to accept weaker players.

You know who you are.

The Augmented Ironworks set (i130) can last on ALL of the HW leveling dungeons. The same can be said for the Augmented Shire set (i270). The items required to augment their respective pieces ONLY costs 100 tomes. That is already much cheaper than the options we had when they were relevant (Savage raids, 24-man tokens, etc.)

There wasn't a guaranteed item level drop in 51-59 leveling dungeons until SB came out.

SE can only do so much to hold the hands of players after they complete Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium, and eventually start going into the end-game/post-game stuff.

[Frizze]

It is most definitely not harassment. Your going way overboard and not just crossing the line. If anything your action to dismiss is bullying and harassment. You should be removed from the game.

You can get ironworks at lvl 50, hailstorm and shire at 60. but you wouldnt be able to get a set for the dungeons inbetween, the drops are too inconsistent you'll be way over level and require higher gear by the time you get a full set. Your primary and second class will have gils and euipment from msq your 3rd class will not.

You need to accept weaker players.

You know who you are.

Right now if you wanted to you could take your level 70 paladin, equip all level 1 gear, and que for and get put into a group for the level 69 dungeon. You wouldnt have enough hp to survive auto-attack damage, let alone any real attacks - but theres nothing in the duty finder logic stopping you from doing that. On the other hand, if you tried to do the same thing but went to que for the level 60 dungeon Baelsars Wall instead the game wouldnt let you que, because you need an average ilvl of 230 to que for that dungeon. If the game thinks you need to be i-230 to clear the last level 60 dungeon, doesnt it make logical sense that more then 230 would be needed for the 61-69 dungeons? And i will remind you that shire gear upgrades to level 270, so 230 is extra low for 61+ anyway. And youre way off about the "inconsistent" drops. In the leveling dungeons you are guaranteed 1 piece for your class directly into your inventory, plus any extras that pop up in any of the chests you can roll for. So long as you run some level-appropriate dungeons youre guaranteed upgrades. As for equipping tertiary classes and beyond, i guess this is a challenge you have to figure out. Doing the MSQ, i got multiple full sets of gear - i sold the ones for classes i couldnt use, like a lot of people do. But if i need to i can craft something, i can buy something(there are so few things to spend money on in the game its rediculous how quickly you can save up a fat stack), or i can run my level 70 BLM through some lower content to get the gear that my other classes might lack(either solo unsync style or with partners in crime).

As for your final assertion about how we need to "accept weaker players"... remember that acceptance is a two way street. I dont run a parser(i dont trust any addons), but i know myself and i know my output well enough to gauge the other DPS in a party. I know when im with an equal(fast runs), when im the weak link(super fast runs), when im with someone weaker(slower runs), and when im absolutely carrying someone who either doesnt understand how to play their class or doesnt care enough to put in the effort(these are the runs where you discover what happens in the 5th boss phase). Ive never kicked someone from a party for being weaker then me, i only kick people who are jerks in chat(or afk/disconnected of course). All i ask from people is a minimal level of effort. Are you trying? I can start a couple extra Fires if i need to. But if you arent willing to put forth any effort, then why should i work twice as hard to cover for you? Think about it.

[Mavrias]

>implying i care how long a dps waited in queue and that I should feel bad for kicking them because they waited.

>implying i care that dps dont get adventurer in need very often and that they get a free pass on gear because they dont get an extra handful of gil (like the cost of repairs lmso) per roulette run.

"what makes you think your viewpoint is shared by the rest of the team" 1. The rest of the team wearing level appropriate gear or better and 2. The votekick going through.

I accept weaker players who try. I dont accept lazy players expecting others to put up with them.

[Metalwrath]

Ask them to quip proper gear.If they dont kick them.If they have 3 lvl 70 characters then they are well aware of what they were doing at just being too cheap to buy gear or get tomes.They will learn their lesson and get proper gear or they wil burden someone else.Either way you are doing yourself and your team mates a favor.
It's not fair for the 3 of you to carry lazy people like that who want free carry to level their other jobs.

[HyoMinPark]

Vendors gear are just as expensive as market board gears. Case closed.

This varies by server. On mine (Cactuar), the only Yeti Staff weapons up for sale are HQ, starting at 99,000 gil. The last NQ weapon sold on 1/14 for 34,000 gil. The vendor sells it for 23,680 gil. So, actually, MB is more expensive than vendor on my server. But, again, varies by server, and we don’t know which server this particular BLM was on. That being said, there is always Ironworks, and this game practically barfs poetics at players nowadays.

The only issue I would have with this particular person would be their i43 weapon in a dungeon that drops i120 gear, when they could easily get a free i120 weapon for very little effort and very few poetics, or spend 24k on an NQ vendor i115 weapon; they aren’t new to the game with 3 jobs at 70, and should know the importance of gear. I, personally, take zero issue with i90 gear in Dusk Vigil (even though better gear is available for little effort, but at least it’s i90), but I do take issue with an extremely outdated weapon. Both options presented (Ironworks and NQ vendor) are better than an i43 weapon in level 51 content.

Not all leveling dungeons need minimum ilvls, in my opinion, but I do think there should be some light gating, particularly for the dungeons that are present at the beginning of expansions (so Dusk Vigil for Heavensward and Sirensong Sea for Stormblood) and maybe a few others (The Vault, Bardam’s Mettle, and Doma Castle come to mind here because of the stories I’ve heard/things I have personally seen).

The last Expert Dungeons for ARR (Wanderer’s Palace HM/Amdapor Keep HM—level 50) and Heavensward (Baelsar’s Wall/Sohm Al HM—level 60) require i90 and i230 respectivly. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for Dusk Vigil (level 51) to require i115 and Sirensong Sea (level 61) to require i255. Speaking from experience, it is really, really hard to keep up a tank in i230 in Sirensong. I’ve had to do it before on both AST and SCH, and while it’s doable, I can’t do much else outside of spam-heal and pray the DPS kill the mobs quickly. I’ve also seen undergeared healers that cannot keep up with even small pulls in some of the later Heavensward/Stormblood dungeons (Bardam’s and Doma really comes to mind here), and when DPS already outright refuse to AOE trash packs and instead single-target them down, poor gear only adds to the frustration.

[hamond]

Basically with all thats been said, most of it just go on a tangent and its just "we dont want to put up with weaker players be that due to skill or armor".

The arguments are:

1. Little effort required. Market board prices varies by server.

2000 poetics for a full set without accessories takes a while to farm. Market board gear is expensive regardless of server, but degree do vary.

2. We dont care how long you have to wait we'll just kick you. Why should I work twice as hard.

Well, you dont. You dont work twice as hard, you cant. If you are, then there's a very big problem with the dungeon. That you can slack off as much as you are. The maximum item lvl should be lowered so that you cant.

And you dont care? thats not even an excuse or reason. Yes i get it. It doesnt invalid date anything, it just says loud and clear that your not a very kind person. Im saying you should be more forgiving and learn to accept.

[hamond]

You dont kick anyone for been weak and only jerks. Thats very subjective, what you consider weak and what you consider jerk. You seem to be very proud that you can tell when your doing well and when you arent. Thats not been debated here and is irrelevant, your going on a tangent. DPS single targeting has nothing to do with gear. Basically you dont like people you perceive to be lazy. Let me tell you, you are not always right about them.

Treatment of players vary from abuse, to dismissal. Degree of severity varies but this is wrong.

3. Its possible to equip lvl 1 gear.

If item lvl is too low to clear they waste their own time too, they know it and they learn. lvl 1 gear is just outright troll you dont really get it. But of course you could do that yourself and "raise awareness".

[hamond]

Does anyone report seeing lvl 43 staff in a lv 69 dungeon? If not then it means people do bother to upgrade their gear.

I've seen lvl 43 dusk vigil too and I see no issues with it, the dungeon gets cleared just as well. - I dont mind the small amount of time extra.
This is a game where we should help each other. If you have a problem with that, dont go duty finder. Roulette is set up to help people, the reward is incentive. If you accept the incentive, help them please, otherwise dont participate.

[Legion88]

Isn‘t it help to point him to vendors for level apropiate gear?
If I kick the person in question depends on his/her attitude.
If he is willing to listen and learn and tries to play on a acceptable baseline of job knowledge? He can stay and try to pull his weight.
If he is acting like a dick or just don‘t care? He/she gets the boot and maybe a report according to his/her insults and behavior.

Also every dungeon has a hidden ilvl requirement for tanks and heals in form of incoming damage.
So why not one for DDs too? Enrages and DPS-Checks for all duties!

And I had a both an ilvl ~60 tank, while I was healer, and a healer around the same ilvl, while I was tank, both in Dusk Vigil.
It schouldn‘t surprise that the tank didn‘t survive a single GCD in combat and the heal couldn’t handle the incoming damage so I slowly died, not just internally, i died every pull.

So the min ilvl serves to ensure a more or less smooth run for everyone, so why not also introducing it to the leveling dungeons to prepare the players for the requirements at the lvl caps?