Rival Wings: remove soaring and remove mid

[Thamorian]

Rival Wings: remove soaring and remove mid. And in general nerf healers. I don't give 2 craps about feast diamond and platinum. Frontlines and Rival wings needs some balance too.

[Mofafafa]

No, the removal of soaring will makes Machina more OP.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Mechs are hardly OP currently. Players however make the frequent mistakes of trying to engage them in choke points, not flanking them, or trying to avoid them altogether. Best thing you can do against a Chaser/Brute is close the gap. Easier to avoid their cones, and they have to try and reposition to hit you, which is time and opportunity to attack them. It's not uncommon that I force Chasers to back off of me.

Soaring needs readjustment, definitely. I get they wanted to create a better Battle High/Fever mechanic, but 20% better everything shared across a team only really lends well to imbalanced practices.

[Graci]

20% better everything

It's actually not 20% for all, the damage taken reduction is only 1% per stack. I do think that the healing potency bonus should probably also be 1% per stack, though... I'm kind of conflicted since I'm a career healer who's played Frontlines for so long and now they've finally added a buff that's tied to KOs that benefits healers. But even I'm kind of tired of seeing legions of healers guarding mid every game; it's not even fun for me as a healer!

Hopefully the generator is altered or removed since I feel like that's mainly where the stacking of healers is overpowered, and maybe with mammets, also. I think someone on the forums here suggested that mammets should have a healing received reduction (maybe it could be -50%?), that would probably help a lot!

[Rufalus]

From Q&A it sounds like they do have substantial Rival Wings balance changes coming in patch, including some kind of change to mid. Attempting to balance by adjusting the rules more so than adjusting the job roles. Will see how it goes.

[Eight]

If anything the healers need to be nerfed first and foremost because right now they are far too overpowered and it's ridiculous that two healers and hold off multiple alliances.

I always though they should get rid of player locations on the map, it would be far more strategic having to actually have people scout and keep an eye out. It would vary the game play more instead of just "OPP north" and everyone spamming north. This could also alleviate the whole losing mid = loss because 3 healers are standing there. It would give teams with less mechs more of a chance and let's be real the team that loses the middle will almost always lose minus the odd lucky match.

That or they should make mammets worth some cerulean when killed, like 5 or something because right now 99% of matches come down to having the middle or at least that's how it's been in the numerous matches I'm in every night.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

If anything the healers need to be nerfed first and foremost because right now they are far too overpowered and it's ridiculous that two healers and hold off multiple alliances.

I always though they should get rid of player locations on the map, it would be far more strategic having to actually have people scout and keep an eye out. It would vary the game play more instead of just "OPP north" and everyone spamming north. This could also alleviate the whole losing mid = loss because 3 healers are standing there. It would give teams with less mechs more of a chance and let's be real the team that loses the middle will almost always lose minus the odd lucky match.

That or they should make mammets worth some cerulean when killed, like 5 or something because right now 99% of matches come down to having the middle or at least that's how it's been in the numerous matches I'm in every night.

Actually, mammets give 1 CE per kill. It's really not much, but if you're steadily pushing mammets and a teammate grabs CE tanks, it can all add up.

And removing player locations on the map would actually do far more harm than good. Simply reading the map has allowed for the most simplistic strategies to work, and this has been true since Frontlines. When you know where they are, you know where they aren't, and can use that to your advantage. People really ought to read their maps more.

As for healers, I'd like to see how Soaring adjustments might help first before it would come down to actual job/role adjustments. I do agree however that even just more than 1 healer in a given area can effectively block almost any kind of progress. Mammets take sigificantly less damage from mechs than healers can restore, and while players can arguably do more, it's no good if 2 healers are pretty much pocketing a mammet.

With regards to Soaring, I did look at the notes again, and at 10 stacks, it's 20% damage increase, 10% less damage taken, and 20% restored, but when you factor that healing potencies already generally sit well above both single hits and full combos, that extra 20% puts DPS at an even further loss. And with faster cast times it's a race most people just can't finish.

Lastly, for mid issues, I'll just quote what I said in a different thread:

Part of that is largely due to the fact that players continue to operate on the mistaken impression that capturing and holding mid will win the match for them.

The Generator is NOT a main objective.

Sure, it's nice to have, and it can allow for near continuous spawning of mechs later, but during the initial rush, I've won many matches purely from building momentum against the other team pushing mammets and attacking their towers early. If a teammate grabs CE tanks, we can get an Oppressor out early and drop a tower while people are still trying to contest mid. If this happens on both lanes simultaneously, you've just put the other team in a VERY bad spot, whether you have mid or not.

This is what people continue to fail to understand, and a large reason everything feels so "decided" early into the match. If all you do is try and fail to capture mid right away, you've made no progress. But if you try and fail to capture mid, but had teams attacking their towers already you've made progress, gained momentum, and are in a position to pressure the enemy offensively. This, THIS, is how you win in Rival Wings.

The generator is NOT a main objective. You can however attack and destroy main objectives - towers and cores - whether you control the generator or not.

[saucyshortcake]

Actually, mammets give 1 CE per kill. It's really not much, but if you're steadily pushing mammets and a teammate grabs CE tanks, it can all add up.

It's actually much more than this I believe. The amount of CE you get is proportional to how much damage you/r group dealt to it. I want to say it's actually as high as 10, but it's hard to tell since your own team's mammets do a decent chunk of the damage usually, and I have no idea how healing impacts it.

As far as healing goes.. given I've been leveling AST the last week or so, all I can say is lol. Those times where I'm running around kiting 4-5 players plus mechs that are having difficulty trying to kill me are situations that really, really shouldn't be something that happens. They might not be coordinated on cc or burst, but the sheer HPS vs DPS is redonkulous. 1v1, 2v1, you're practically a god. I don't even have to pay attention to the situations I'm walking into most of the time.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't even have to pay attention to the situations I'm walking into most of the time.

And THIS is the house that 4.0 PvP and Rival Wings built. But hey it's all fine and well for the Feast and people wouldn't be a healer otherwise, so. . .

[Eight]

Actually, mammets give 1 CE per kill. It's really not much, but if you're steadily pushing mammets and a teammate grabs CE tanks, it can all add up.
.......

That's true I guess I never thought of some of that. I still think the mid needs some kind of changes to it because as soon as one team claims in they pretty much have it most of the game because once mechs start coming out it's too hard to send multiple players in to take care of the 2-3 healers holding it down. Maybe the middle should be on a timer from when it activates and after the timer runs down it has a down time period meaning people would actually have to leave and farm other ways. I guess if that were to happen though other things would have to be buffed to keep CE coming at a steady pace.