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  1. #1
    Player
    BlackcatChen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    37
    Character
    Blackcat Ofillomen
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    They are not really off, being that your being "Smoked" is more of player competence and understanding. Your source is more of estimation and like you mentioned not 100% and really gives no actual data just estimations. I'm referring to Trial runs, actual testing. Mine at least were of a set of various communities that have tested. If your raid leader or even yourself were to use ACT you may see a complete different perspective. Your estimated numbers may even lack recommended just to get a new perspective you should try it.
    Please do not try to discredit somebody's hard work if you do not even understand how it works, or where its data comes from, that's just incredibly petty. The only "estimation" comes from turning speed/crit buffs into static damage buffs so it doesn't have to go through the entire log (which would be insane on web requests to a certain FFXIV information gathering website). As well as not going through logs line by line to factor in buffs being stacked (they're multiplicative, not additive), that's why it's not 100%. In this fashion, it still favours the ones dealing damage more, not the ones giving the buff. It is all generated from actual data, and you can generate calculations from your own logs with it. Even before I created this website explicitly for the purpose of shedding more light on Personal DPS vs Raid DPS, it was pretty obvious that NIN, DRG, and BRD were contributing insane amounts of raid DPS. There's a reason why those three are in almost every single deltascape savage speed kill known to man. They produce the most damage. And most of those are DRG/NIN/BRD/MCH, for obvious reasons.

    One more thing, a call to "player competence and understanding" implies that you personally do have the competence to back that claim up, with solid proof that you're even qualified to say something like that. Saying that no BLM could possibly have great uptime is an insult to all players that put their most into their play. You're saying you haven't even cleared the most simple savage tier this game has had. Please, stop insulting people that way, especially if you do not have the full picture.

    I'll reiterate what a lot of people have been saying here regarding this thread's argument:
    - Good BLM can optimize most encounters in this game to near full uptime using the current toolset.
    - BLM even in prog can safely figure out how to learn encounters (this is including savage and ultimate) while keeping generally good uptime using the current toolset.
    - A BLM at 100% uptime (full performance, no place left to optimize and get better at) in the same composition type does ~200PDPS less than SMN. (Look at actual statistics here, they all exist in the usual places)
    - A BLM at 100% uptime does a lot less RDPS than DRG, NIN, BRD, MCH, SMN, MNK. Once you factor in raid dps buffs, the picture becomes a lot different how much damage a job is actually contributing. They're one of the weakest jobs in the game right now.

    I'll echo earlier statements: BLM mobility is the best it has been, barring 2.5. But even in 2.5, BLM would KILL to have sharpcast and triplecast for Earth Shaker in T13. Good BLM have managed near 100% uptime on Living Liquid Savage, with no spell speed melds available, a 10 second astral fire timer, a 3 second fire 4 cast time, and of course no triplecast or between the lines because 3.0. BLM is hurting for raid DPS contribution right now. That's the main, #1 concern. Quality of Life would be nice, but without proper damage in your party, BLM might as well not exist, they currently have no real purpose in your party.
    (13)

  2. #2
    Player
    ChaozK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    572
    Character
    Baal Mirtaq
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackcatChen View Post
    Even before I created this website explicitly for the purpose of shedding more light on Personal DPS vs Raid DPS
    Highly offtopic, but could you consider adding in slashing debuff? I know you did something similar where you split disembowel contribution in case there are multiple DRGs. Asking because theres a high stigma against SAM where people wont take it even when they are the only source of slashing.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Remedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,556
    Character
    Remedi Maxwell
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaozK View Post
    Highly offtopic, but could you consider adding in slashing debuff? I know you did something similar where you split disembowel contribution in case there are multiple DRGs. Asking because theres a high stigma against SAM where people wont take it even when they are the only source of slashing.
    I agree would be extremely interesting to know the exact possible rdps that a SAM can provide via slashing
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Remedi View Post
    I agree would be extremely interesting to know the exact possible rdps that a SAM can provide via slashing
    Something like 6% of a paladin, 9% of a dark knight, 10% bonus to Samurai. There is no real loss to applying Slash as it's on all built in combos that are part of the core rotation, unlike Monks who still theoretically lose out for applying Dragon Kick over Bootshine (Double Monks, it's like almost a 1-2% bonus if you can just bootshine while the other guy upkeeps the buff)

    So if you take a good but not top tier of those three jobs, assuming no other slashing debuff for some odd reason, Samurai adds something like another 800ish to the raid. (4-500 for itself, 90 for Paladin, 150-180 Dark Knight)
    (0)
    Last edited by Kabooa; 01-17-2018 at 09:33 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Remedi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,556
    Character
    Remedi Maxwell
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    Something like 6% of a paladin, 9% of a dark knight, 10% bonus to Samurai. There is no real loss to applying Slash as it's on all built in combos that are part of the core rotation, unlike Monks who still theoretically lose out for applying Dragon Kick over Bootshine (Double Monks, it's like almost a 1-2% bonus if you can just bootshine while the other guy upkeeps the buff)

    So if you take a good but not top tier of those three jobs, assuming no other slashing debuff for some odd reason, Samurai adds something like another 800ish to the raid. (4-500 for itself, 90 for Paladin, 150-180 Dark Knight)
    Mh kinda expected as such (actually a bit less) frankly there's no reason why BLM shouldn't be able to contribute to the raid in some way. I mean atm SAM has more dps and can give some raid dps and since SE wants to make engaging 4 man content too that should be more relevant too
    (0)