Thread: 4.2 Updates from Q&A with Yoshida

Originally Posted by Theodric

Most people I know absolutely loathe doing roulettes and literally only do them because they're the most efficient way to cap their weekly tomes. If harder dungeons were introduced with a compelling incentive I have no doubt that they would be successful. One thing that could be done is encouraging bosses to be killed in a specific way for achievements - which is one of the few things I miss about WoW. Once every dungeon achievement is completed that player can walk away with a prestigious mount, minion or title.

This is basically me; I avoid doing any roulettes once I’ve capped because I consider the content to be stale.

Something I observed during an attempted Floor 200 PotD run was one of the mobs (Deep Palace Biloko), when it aggro’d onto the tank in the group who was already tanking one mob, the new Biloko actually casted and applied Stoneskin onto the other mob. I thought that was a very interesting mechanic. Add something like priority mobs to dungeons that buff the other mobs or heal them, and that could make the expert dungeons more interesting (I’ve noticed that the developers have done away with the mobs that would heal other mobs, like some of the conjurers in solo-instances that you needed to prioritize killing first so that they didn’t spam heal the others). Give us more threatening mobs like the Deep Palace Chimeras where you need to stun/silence their Ram’s Voice/Dragon’s Voice to avoid damage that actually hurts (and not just a DoT or Paralysis debuff that are more of an annoyance than anything else); that would also make BRD/MCH role skills more useful since there would actually be a need for a stun or silence in place of, say, Second Wind.

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I don't think this works. If it were farm party ex primal difficulty, it would end up taking longer and being more frustrating to do. And you'd end up with the same result, it would be just as tedious in the same way farm parties are just as tedious despite it being harder content. Its just people forgive them more since they give mounts and bis, and don't have to be done every week. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people would just stick with the easy dungeons.

Why do people always jump to “Savage-level difficulty dungeons” whenever anyone suggests to make them slightly harder? No one has ever suggested dungeons be on a Savage-level. They just want them to not be something you can semi-AFK in the middle of and still clear.

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And people hated pharos sirius and left it en masse whenever it popped up, if I recall. the same people who talk about raids being too easy will complain about how people can't even do a basic farm party. What do you think happens when you suddenly raise the difficulty then? If expert got harder, it wouldn't be more fun for you, because anything in this game is only a challenge once; after that its a nuisance.

Alright, let's rip the bandage off: people hated and left it because they couldn't handle it. Just like Aurum Vale. And Steps of Faith. And Weeping City. And Rabanastre. All content notorious for being remotely challenging, if not simply punishing for carelessness. People have become too used to faceroll content, and if it can't be facerolled or outgeared, they avoid it like an allergy. It literally takes SE either dumbing it down repeatedly or packing it with rewards to get people to do it. And it hurts inside to remember there were petitions to NOT nerf Weeping City or Shinryu. Normal Shinryu.

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It's almost like if you have a willingness to improve, you will. Funny now that works.

I don't know how to describe this wonderful feeling you've given me by saying this. Definitely made me smile for the first time today.

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

And Steps of Faith.

The problem with Steps of Faith was that people would get it and instaquit, which made it hard to get groups to complete, which turned into a MSQ block. They don't like MSQ blocks. Despite the complaints, Shinryu normal didn't get nerfed because people *didn't* abandon it en masse and, although a challenge for a lot of people, it didn't turn into a MSQ brick wall.

DF balancing is always tricky because the tipping point between "this is faceroll for organized people" and "groups of randoms will not have the coordination to do this at all" is pretty thin and somewhat blurry. So if it's content they expect random DF formed groups to be able to clear, there are limits on what they can do that don't exist in Savage and especially in Ultimate.

Added to that, lots of "casual" players are playing for the story and such. Those folks pay and don't complain on the forum a whole lot, but they want the whole story. That's why you don't have story gated behind high end duties anymore: those people would be unable to do it and would likely quit in response, which means lost revenue, which is bad for the budget, which is bad for everyone. Hence the model of all story content being in normal modes, and Ex/Savage/Ultimate being for players that want a greater challenge.

Is it perfect? Not at all. Expert Roulette is a freaking joke right now and it's become its own problem due to being so easy that it's not preparing anyone for what comes later. But I think the overall design methodology is sound given the constraint that the market places on them.

Originally Posted by Nezerius

Not really going to dig into this too much, but you really have no idea how bad Gordias was to the raiding community. The Gordias tier didn't have "plenty of raid groups" coming together, it actually reduced the active raiding population by quite a bit.
The group of players standing at the Gordias entrance, on reset day, would shrink with every following week (this was back when going to the entrance was still a requirement to going into Alexander), and the majority of the statics I knew about ended up falling apart on A3S.

You're probably right about Midas, but I stopped raiding for that tier, and didn't go back to it until the release of Creator.

OT: I'm happy with the fact that they're choosing to keep the difficulty of Sigmascape similar to Deltascape, if they're using v3/4s as a baseline. I do think they could make the first two floors a tiny bit harder, though.

Plenty relative to what was available. I'll concede how successful they were... leaves something to be desired. That being said, my rebuttal was more Riyah's insistence you couldn't raid in either Gordias or Midas without experience. You certainly could. I am well aware Gordias was a disaster for the raid scene, but no one is asking for that level of difficulty again. Frankly, that is what I find so irksome. Whenever difficulty or lack thereof is mentioned, someone instantly jumps to the tier virtually everyone acknowledges—devs included—was poorly designed. There's a middle ground between Gordias and Omega. It also cannot be stressed enough the impact cross world PF had. The absence of this feature severely limited recruitment pools hence why Gilgamesh became what it was.

Regardless, the crux of my reply dealt more with the fact someone who doesn't even participate in Savage was essentially assuming my position and opinion. Which I didn't appreciate.

I'll grant you V3/4S, though I do wish they would stick to what they said originally and gradually built back up. Omega -> Creator -> Midas (Perhaps slightly easier)

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I don't think it's so much wanting to stroke their own egos but exactly what Bourne said. Remember when "Expert" roulette was a challenge? Pharos Sirius does. Remember Second Coil? Remember Crystal Tower? Sure, they were a headache back in their respective times, but not only were they fun, they were fun because they were a challenge. However comma for anyone who's been around for a while, well, even someone who hasn't, steadily watching the bar get lower isn't enjoyable. At this point, I almost feel punished for pushing myself to be good at the game. I'm not the best, and sure there's far better players, but at some point it really starts to feel like there's no point in being good when you can just sit and wait for the handout or the bar to be lowered.

Couldn't have summarized it better. What I find irksome is how whenever you claim something too easy, someone inevitably rushes to mention Gordias. One of my all time favourite instances in this game is Weeping City. Nowhere near Savage level difficulty but something that still posed a nice challenge. I am far from the best player myself, which is why I always advocate anyone can improve if I can. I started out as someone who once struggled with Sophia. I didn't just suddenly become better, I worked towards my goal and pushed myself—something anyone can do. It just sucks seeing your endeavors to improve are met with easing the content because someone else couldn't be bothered to put in effort.

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I don't know how to describe this wonderful feeling you've given me by saying this. Definitely made me smile for the first time today.

Happy to oblige.

The irony of accusing people of making assumptions while simultaneously also making assumptions.

Edit, because I’m not going to use up another post count: If you’re allowed to complain about the state of PvP, Riyah, why aren’t raiders allowed to complain about the state of Savage raids? If it’s not content you’re doing and/or interested, why do you care if they ask for it to be a little bit harder?