This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Lilseph]

Any content outside of Savage, does not require a parser. Savage content requires FFLOGS or Parsing to see where your DPS is at for each DPS/Tank/Healers to clear that savage content you're wiping to.

Yes, that'd be correct, but on a superficial level, it also helps anywhere else. But imo, say you're practicing a job out. You might want to run it through dungeons either for gear/leveling purposes or ex primals. The parser under these conditions would help you to start tunning your rotation in order to achieve a decent level of profiency. Same with sitting in a training dummy. You don't want to learn your job during raid, that's for sure.

It's a guide, extra data never hurts. Now if people DEMAND certain degree of DPS, well, that's up to them. Right off the top of my head "skip soar or disband", you can filter the poor performers instead of trashing the whole group because one or more people. If people are farming primals, they want to do it the fastest way possible and that requires players that are good. inb4 people interpret this as "OMG PURFFFECT PLAY AGAIN YOU ELITIST". No *SLAPS* NO! "Good" as in "people that got their rotation down" and "know how to play their job" and "are not dead weight for the group", like the DPS on the OP's fflogs: Both the tanks and the healers were carrying the DPS in that group, do you think that's fair? but you already covered that when you spoke about its utility in raid content. However, I am sure this also happens in Ex trials, which you excluded.

The tool can be used completely or partially, depending on the content you're running. It's always amusing to measure your own performance and comparte it to the rest of the group. For better or worse, it's there.

[Salted]

Right off the top of my head "skip soar or disband", you can filter the poor performers instead of trashing the whole group because one or more people.

LOL skip soar or disband. In-game parser with showing average parses would have DEFINITELY helped there. Most of the groups I was in had decent dpses maybe lower than normal ilvl but their dps was good enough, and had MASSIVE tank or healer dps problems, but the DPS ALWAYS got blamed while tanks/healers were toxic. There were tanks hitting 1/4 of what they should be hitting (-1500 dps) or healers not even dpsing AT ALL that would call the DPS "shit" because they weren't skipping soar. Can't call them out because they'll ban you for mentioning their dps.

DPS is a GROUP responsibility, dps is just more responsible for it. Just like keeping hate is a GROUP responsibility the tank is just more responsible for it. You don't not pop diversion take hate or spam cure III take agro and not pop lucid, then call the tank "shit" .

[Melichoir]

snip

To play devil's advocate again here, No, you do not need a parser to beat Savage content.

Parsers it of itself has nothing to do with completing any boss mechanic. "But the enrage timer!!!!"

Ok, so you hit enrage, that immediately tells you a few possible likelyhoods

1) Your group is undergeared
2) Your group is taking to much damage or dying to mechanics to much to have proper damage output
3) Your group DPS is to low due to people not understanding their classes.

Now, pragmatically you should be able to easily tell if youre properly geared or not. You should also easily tell if youre group is taking to much damage or dying to often. So the only real 'unknown' is your damage output, which stems from knowing your class and rotations IF the other two are not a factor.

Parsers can help you identify which members of your group are not performing as well, but the parser in of itself does not have any bearing on the fight directly or indirectly.

You can beat savage content without one. It's not as easy, but you can. You could go into any Savage tier and do the fight without any parsers running and still clear it.

So the point you should not be arguing is "We need this for savage content!" because you do not. You dont NEED a parser. You WANT a parser because its a QoL addition that will help you clear content EASIER.

[Elkanah]

Ok, so you hit enrage, that immediately tells you a few possible likelyhoods:

1) Your group is undergeared
3) Your group DPS is to low due to people not understanding their classes.

#1 - Under geared, yes, I can understand.

#3 would indicate that yes, dps parsers would reflect this information

Yes, you can beat savage content without it, however, if Squeenix wants to steer clear from this as an issue for a whole, then either adding a parser to the game or eliminating the death time, would be the best solution for the content. Otherwise, this conversation will still be a continued issue for the ages, and has not changed since 2.0 endgame content.

I will also add that you're right, you don't need one. And can be done without one. For faster clearing on the content though, yes, advocating for an ingame parser, is what I would be doing. Or eliminating the death timer as a whole if that is the case.

[Melichoir]

Yes, you can beat savage content without it, however, if Squeenix wants to steer clear from this as an issue for a whole, then either adding a parser to the game or eliminating the death time, would be the best solution for the content. Otherwise, this conversation will still be a continued issue for the ages, and has not changed since 2.0 endgame content.

Enrage timers exist so you cant outsustain a boss to beat it. You have a time frame you need to beat the boss in. If you reach enrage, it means one of those 3 factors are in play. And as for steering clear, it does not appear they have to, as they themselves have not added it to the game. They must either see the negatives of parsers being more prevalent than the positives, or that the issue is not that big for them to add it in in the first place.

Again, its a QoL that people want one. Not a necessity. And that QoL is not one SE wants to hand over readily for some reason. This could very well be SE telling the player base parsers arent necessary to beat content, but people are to reliant on them possibly as a crutch? I dont know, speculating there.

[KaivaC]

snip

No, Savage does NOT require FFlogs, that mindset is part of the reason why we still have this discussion going on. It helps tremendously, yes, and in many cases, it does say exactly where everyone's standing at. However, it is not a requirement. Take me for example - take my logs for example. Does this mean that I don't meet qualifications to do Savage? No. In fact, it's been quite a while since I've had a log uploaded. That doesn't mean that I'm holding anybody back. And I haven't been kicked or rained upon for my current logs. My logs are not representative of where I'm currently standing. Parsers should be an option, not a requirement outside of statics. No, let me change that - they should be a strong recommendation, but never a requirement.

[Sebazy]

So the point you should not be arguing is "We need this for savage content!" because you do not. You dont NEED a parser. You WANT a parser because its a QoL addition that will help you clear content EASIER.

Whilst we might not need parsers to beat Savage directly, do keep in mind that 'high end' play wouldn't be anything like as optimised or clear cut without the data gleaned from parsers at some point.

Would this be a big deal now given how watered down Savage is these days? Maybe not, but it'd certainly be a very significant impact on more dot centric jobs where a significant portion of your damage never makes it to the chat log.

[Elkanah]

snip

Quick question:
Do you do your homework on your rotations? Or do you just say "screw it" and just try your best without knowing anything about your job?
Do you do your homework for the savage content? OR just go in blind and not bother to ask questions to others in the community (in FC/LS/whatever) or talk with anyone about the content?
Are you someone who gets carried and has the "you don't pay my sub" mentality when it comes to harder content?

I ask these questions, as many who I've asked the above to, have not met the requirements or criterias. They DON'T know their jobs. They DON'T do any research (first couple weeks are obviously hit/miss on new content release). Most of these type of players have the same mindset of "you don't pay my sub, I'll play however I want to", which is just as much a problem in the community as this discussion. There's 8 players in an instance, and everyone still needs to do their part in terms of damage, best or not.

You can have a whole party with the maximum ilvl (since yoshi-p seems to think that's all it requires or best instead of best in slot), and still be okay, which is in fact the opposite. Otherwise, there'd be no point in endgame gear if stat weights didn't matter in terms of Crit/DH and Determination with food + overmelds. You can also try to beat the savage content with maximum ilvl in just the gear from tomes (no savage gear), fully melded and upgraded to 340 (or no melds), no wipes, and still be short on damage because stat weights play the same role as the player who understands their job, rotation and the boss mechanics.

I shall complete the answer with: Yes, I (myself) say it's a strong recommendation (your words), as opposed to being a requirement.

[KaivaC]

snip

1) Depends on how quickly I can figure out the job. I'm doing homework for SMN because that job outright confuses me, I haven't for AST as I feel like I've learned what I can do with the class without needing guides.

2) I started Savage when it was released, so there's that. And then spent a good month with randoms progging O3S, so I didn't bother with the other runs quite as much while I was learning that fight.

3) The only thing I needed to be carried on was the Warring Triad Ex at level 70, and that was because they were literally the only things holding back my mentor status, as well as me openly saying as such when I asked players to help me unlock it solely for mentor roulettes.

[Elkanah]

Boop

Exactly. You're someone who knows and understands your job, the content and does their homework. I ask these questions, as many who I've asked the above to, have not met the requirements or criteria's. They DON'T know their jobs. They DON'T do any research (first couple weeks are obviously hit/miss on new content release). Most of these type of players have the same mindset of "you don't pay my sub, I'll play however I want to", which is just as much a problem in the community as this discussion. There's 8 players in an instance, and everyone still needs to do their part in terms of damage, best or not. Parser helps (I say helps), to find out the issue in dps from all players. Especially classes that are on the top of the board for endgame. Though, as many had pointed out, it's not necessary as you can beat the content without it, it's strongly advocated for (some) not all players in the community.