This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Dualgunner]

The thing is, Alien, parsers are allowed implicitly. The only thing that can get one banned regarding a parser is harassment, and that wouldn't change with an official parser.

[Inuk9]

You can just, you know, report him and move on. What parses have to do with anything of this?

[Alien_Gamer]

Dualgunner beat me to it, but aye, sorry if it came across as me calling you bigoted. That wasn't my intention <3

Its all good, I'll try to read more carefully next time. Sorry for replying as i did.

Thus my stance that simply incorporating the 3rd party parser into the game as is would be a mistake. The community isn't ready for that. If we ever do get one, it should be self only and absolutely discrete at least until the populace as a whole warms up to it.

As a whole, I agree with your stance. But then, how does a community warm up to it? How could SE, or anyone, measure the acceptance of parsers? I suppose the corollary to that is how could one evaluate if toxicity gets worse or better with it? How could a community say this is or is not working? Personally, while I like reading the forums, they would be a poor medium to evaluate such a thing.

[Sebazy]

You're absolutely right, you don't and there is plenty of toxicity everywhere without it. As far as i'm aware there's no rigorous studies on the social dynamics of parsers and toxicity to point to, literally all I have is my experience and the behavior I've witnessed. That is toxicity grows when parsers are allowed in the game.

I'm not even really convinced that it grows once parsers become a thing, rather I think it's down to the content at hand. FFXI's highly competitive endgame scene was incredibly toxic and at times it bordered on a gangland mentality. Nothing I've ever seen or experienced in FFXIV has ever come close to the drama and abuse I saw pretty much every time a desirable HMN or King popped. This was during the days of Zilart and CoP, long before parsing was a thing. I did make a return several years later (Mid WotG) and the endgame had actually mellowed out quite significantly, parsing was starting to become a thing but that had nothing to do with it, it was all down to the lessened competition over content.

Challenging content breed's toxicity amongst pugs when there's an opportunity for failures to snowball over the rest of the raid. Void Ark was a complete cake walk and as a result, it was rare to see drama outside of the occasional troll. By comparison, the more problematic bosses such as Hashmal are breeding grounds for drama especially now where the raider to casual ratio is at it's most skewed. Some people just need a stone to throw when they feel like they are being held back by others and the anonymity of DF causes many to act highly inappropriately compared to how they would behave amongst people they know.

It's not a parser problem, it's a human nature problem and it's certainly nothing new.

The thing is, Alien, parsers are allowed implicitly. The only thing that can get one banned regarding a parser is harassment, and that wouldn't change with an official parser.

It's more a case of 'fight club' rules rather than outright allowed, don't forget this.

I earned myself a temp ban and tasty warning for making a SCH DPS guide on how to do 1000DPS in the dungeons at HW's release, no harassment, no naming and no drama in the thread, just a bunch of video clips along with a guide. My undoing was a screenshot showing the numbers I was putting out. I'm guessing that if I'd just have had the videos with a discrete log link or such I'd have probably been ok, but in showing and naming the software I fell foul of the ban hammer which is fair enough.

It's actually interesting to see that this thread has been allowed to continue TBH. Perhaps the official stance here has softened a little overtime I guess? It'd be nice to know what the actual final say is, but I can't see us getting that from any official source =(

But then, how does a community warm up to it? How could SE, or anyone, measure the acceptance of parsers? I suppose the corollary to that is how could one evaluate if toxicity gets worse or better with it? How could a community say this is or is not working? Personally, while I like reading the forums, they would be a poor medium to evaluate such a thing.

It's pretty much a given that there would be a substantial backlash here even if SE did something as simple as implementing a self only S-F tiered ranking prompt for your own performance in Savage content alone. It'd take time for people to realise that the world hasn't actually ended and that this tool can be rather useful and interesting. Numbers to chase! Something to actually spice up Expert a little bit

For SE to follow it's usage, I suppose the simplest way would be twofold, gate it's usage behind a side quest and track how many people bother with it whilst also keeping a tabs on harassment tickets and such.

As a community we can't even decide if we like Cloud's bike or not, let alone anything serious. That's one for SE to decide.

[Shurrikhan]

Its all good, I'll try to read more carefully next time. Sorry for replying as i did.




As a whole, I agree with your stance. But then, how does a community warm up to it? How could SE, or anyone, measure the acceptance of parsers? I suppose the corollary to that is how could one evaluate if toxicity gets worse or better with it? How could a community say this is or is not working? Personally, while I like reading the forums, they would be a poor medium to evaluate such a thing.

When your majority of experiences of when, say, a DF group upon failing a DPS check of some sorts receives valid, relevant, and not-yet-capitalized-upon pointers for improvement in the given phase and no one snarkily peps back that they're not to blame, or that they know better, or that the advise is officious and therefore inherently malicious, you'd be getting warmer. Bonus if people note things they could have improved, ask questions, or offer other pieces of advice of their own, working towards the end of completion -- often completing the short-term goal by seemingly a larger margin than necessary in order to provide leeway thereafter and best habits leading up to that point -- rather than acting defensively or centering that experience around themselves. By the time the vast majority of people are willing to spend the time to practice and improve on their own time as necessary to perform up to expectations in the content they'll be entering -- and have the tools to let that practice make a difference -- and especially if they can come to enjoy that process of self-improvement, we'd pretty much be there.

Parsers are primarily a self-improvement tool; people need to first be into that sort of thing. Otherwise it's like a gym without members, because any current would-be athelete who'd make use of it only exercises in that very same process that they're working towards. Puny-armed mountain-bikers going down potentially dangerous slopes, slim high school linebackers facing off when they might not be able shove around someone even their own weight, with only the act itself to benchmark from and improve by.

[Gleipni]

The only good thing about an official parse,is to make some people realise they are not ready to do savage or extrem trial

if people see they are at 500dps and other DD at 1500,it can help people to asses themselve. but hey,lets not offend people feeling about their capabilities

[akaneakki]

Easily..

There is a difference being ilvl 320 on prog like myself doing 3.5k with 1 death vs a 340 ilvl person having 1 death doing the same or less than I did back in july.
The OP said the dps of 3.5k is fine, when it's not. A 340 mch shouldnt do 3.5k dps with death and certainly not 4k dps as ilvl 340. There is a difference doing same dps as a ilvl 320 vs a 340 dps. Nobody is expecting 99th, because that also comes to party comp, uptime for melees etc etc. There is so much more than that, what we expect is you don't do same dps as a ilvl 320 dps when you are ilvl 340 dps.
You come and go and see it in most PF: high dps, set to a certain ilvl lets say 330 but the dps is as 'good'' as a 310 or 320 dps.

Learn to read : I said the DRG was above what was needed. .

Read the post above this one and then read what I said earlier in the thread. Nobody is expecting amazing dps all the time, we expect people to not play as they are 20-30 ilvl below their ilvl and certainly not play like ''as long I'm doing more than tank I'm okay. So what if tank did 3.5k and you did 3.7k, doesnt mean you good. If you are sitting at 4k dps in o2s without death, something is terrible wrong. However doing 4.7k ish is completely fine and thats completely fine with most

When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.
This was also an enrage btw.

@Alien, when I made the post for your earlier, is how most people talk when they go in content with others and expect us to carry their weight too. I'm not saying you are, but there are far too many who do.

The only good thing about an official parse,is to make some people realise they are not ready to do savage or extrem trial

if people see they are at 500dps and other DD at 1500,it can help people to asses themselve. but hey,lets not offend people feeling about their capabilities

This is another reason why it's needed. I'm seriously baffled that a PVE game doesn't have a parser.

In .

Ï forgot where you mentioned it but you said something about player just reporting people assuming they use a parser, hell it could been a ps4 player saying they are, but we all know.... how that works. Just reporting for the sake of your ''feeling''... ugh yeah no comment.

Mater of fact, while I don't mind criticism, if anyone says anything that makes it sound like there's even a a tiny chance of them having a parser and/or using it on a run I'm on I report them. That crap doesn't need to be here and it's annoying enough knowing people still use them.

People say they don't mind critsicm, but yet we get offended on a daily basis by people when we try to help? There was another guy who said bann everyone whos on fflogs, don't think he have a clue ps4 players can be listed there too lol.

[Gleipni]

When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.
This was also an enrage btw.

MAn,that parse is sad,clearly,without the 340 stuff you get for free in rabanastre,tehy would never beat any thing.

[AiharaMizuki]

snip

Add people like OP in that example of yours of people who just make stories up for their anti-parse narrative even when they know they're not doing as much as they should

[Inuk9]

Problem is, its an absolutely tiny minority that can clear current content fine but has nothing on FFLogs.) (..)

(..)and yeah, people with no logs are almost always dragging the party down. .

I mean, you can be right but that creates a community gate, I will use me as example. my character name is Cacho'rro Dos'ventos from Behemoth, my main is Warrior you can see my logs to verify my history.

At first I had almost no logs/grey logs and good thing I had friends to play with. Imagine if I had to PF content to learn how to farm those fights? (Note: Learn how to properly optimize your job, the boss rotations and stuff, not learning the fight).

So, I've learned O1s and O2s good enough to get purple logs because of those friend guild runs. What would happen if I never had the chance to do that?

Still working to get purples on O3s and O4s tho.