This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Bourne Endeavor :
My bad, I thought topic was about parsers only... but you all only talk about savage content... Don't put words in my mouth, thank you (hint : people don't only harass people for their dps in raids)
I never said you had to carry them, read better, that should be something you know how to do before even being good at savage content.

You said: "Some people can't even dodge big orange aoe on the ground. So don't ask them to be perfect at dps"

So where exactly did I put words in your mouth when your quote here is pure hyperbole? Apparently, expecting players to dodge AoEs and perform mechanics in Expert dungeon is too much now. I mean, those are your words, not mine.

[Fannah]

But in OP's case, she was doing barely enough. The WAR in the group was 2nd in dps. If every single dps performed at her level, they would have hit enrage and not be able to clear the content. Not saying it's okay to harass people but it shouldn't be a crime to tell people how they really did. Tanks and Healers will get called out if they messed up because it's easy to spot when they make a mistake or underperfom but why can't we hold DPS accountable? Best way to do it is by looking at the dps numbers because they are DPS classes.

Yes, I agree with you and it's obvious. And I read the OP; Just people interpreting badly what i said. I was just reacting exactly to what Gleipni, that in a way, if you are good enough to clear the content, there is no problem.

People being too stupid to don't make the difference between harassement and advice are stupid. I agree and it's obvious. I didn't think I had to underline such obvious thing.

[KaivaC]

snip

Once again, this has nothing to do with being perfect. Using your example, why shouldn't the drg try to figure out why his dps was so much lower than the other players. That's a 40% difference. In your example, that DRG is being carried. I get exactly what you mean... I just don't agree with it because I know I can improve to make runs better with whomever I'm playing with. Even more so because then they have less of a reason to kick me, remember I don't have a static.

[Zeonx]

Probably not the best thing to do. Since you are so against harassment, you probably shouldn’t go off and harass someone on your server over a simple forum discussion because you disagree with them.



You can’t tell someone their opinions are wrong, by the way. Trying to use them as facts and a factual basis to fuel an argument? Maybe. But just stating them as such? No.

trust me he knows about he's been playing longer than me he post on redit not here says forums are selective on banning based on if they are liked or disliked or what they say.

He is right though he has 70's and them saying they don't believe him she was right I don't have 70's I just returned to the game as for him hes right in his own right.

any how I am done with this topic.

[Fannah]

Bourne Endeavor : Stop being such a troll, I'm not talking about those words...
You are thinking I accept bad players in high level content, or that I'm saying it's ok to be bad and carried there. I never said it was.

Just stop, you're being stupid (hint : it doesn't mean you are...)

"God forbid we want to hold players accountable. What terrible, awful people we are." "If your damage is so low other players have to compensate for you, why is that fair? "
It isn't fair, but the fact you say it means you think I believe it is. That's putting words in my mouth.

About the "people can't even dodge orange AoE" is only to say how bad I think of how average players are, not about what we should accept from them. So yes you put words (ideas if you prefer) in my mouth. If you prefer, it was to say I stop counting on other random players, and I just go in static to clear content.

As long as you attack me about something I didn't say or expressed, you put words in my mouth.

I end to believe main part of you people here think I agree with Zeonx while I agree with you overall. But it's less fun to just agree, I guess.

But no one is asking for perfection; they are asking for people to pull their weight.

"Perfect" was an expression -_- Why should I state the obvious? Asking people to pull their weight is absolutely a normal and obvious thing.

Edit : (Too many messages today)

Taking your DRG example, if you as the party leader finds another DRG who does more dps, would you replace him?

If it's a static of random I don't give any interest in, yes, if it's a static of friends and that one brings enough, no.
If it's random Pick up group to clear, then I didn't pick him, and I don't care if as I said he brings more than the average already.

[AiharaMizuki]

if you are good enough to clear the content, there is no problem.

Taking your DRG example, if you as the party leader finds another DRG who does more dps, would you replace him?

[Dualgunner]

Bourne Endeavor :
My bad, I thought topic was about parsers only... but you all only talk about savage content... Don't put words in my mouth, thank you

It may be because the thread is a manufactured and false complaint about parser harassment in O2S that people are talking about savage.

[HyoMinPark]

If there was an in-game parser I feel like a lot of people would probably improve because of it.
I know that until pretty recently I had no idea my damage was so poor and it wasn't until my friends who play on PC and can use ACT told me about it and I actually tried to improve.
Yeah there are people who won't try either way but there might also be a lot of other people who simply don't know how they should improve, or even if they need to improve, because the game doesn't have a parser.

I really like the way you think, and I am of the same mindset. Your comment got kind of lost in a derailment, and I wanted to bring some more attention to it. I really wish there were more people who sought to improve their skill, rather than staying bad or settling for mediocre. And that doesn’t come from any sort of “elitist” viewpoint—I find it fun and challenging to always try to beat my best.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

... are you being willfully obtuse or just hypocritical? Your last several posts defended players who did the bare minimum. Not a page ago your example cited a Dragoon who did 40% less DPS than his counterparts, whom you promptly labelled "perfectionists." By the very definition, the Dragoon was being carried. In fact, you said, and I quote: "I meant if they are bringing enough dps for real, why should they improve overall? That's all I'm saying." Which directly contradicts everything you just said above.

And I wasn't aware disagreeing with you was an attack. A bit defensive are we? Perhaps tumblr may suit you better. See, that's being a little troll-y.

[Fannah]

Learn to read : I said the DRG was above what was needed. that the dps needed was 1000 (not that overall classes had to bring 1000), that he was doing 1200. And that the other ones were doing 60% more than the needed dps. You see it as he brings less dps, I see it as he brings enough dps to leave him alone.

Sorry, I don't care to end a boss in 10minutes instead of 9min. That's what I mean.

The fact you don't understand what I mean doesnt' mean I'm hypocritical. You believe I defend bad players who are burdens. While I defend good enough players who are above average.

If I should go to tumblr, you should go to school.

Edit : Erf I'm blocked again.

The forums blocked me from writing earlier because of the post limit, so I didn't think the "Learn to read" would be posted, then I added arguments about it.

To make everything's clear.

I'm for parsers. I'm for giving advice and make people aware they are under the requirements for the fight. I'm for improvement and for making a performance.
I am against harassment. I'm against annoying someone who is above the average needed especially if that person is not in my static. Ending a boss at 1rst try in 10min instead of 9 min is ok for me.
The performance I do is mine, I don't care the boss died at 1rst try less quickly because the others are not as good as I am.

And for Aihara Mizuki : I'm for keeping friend who are doing enough in my static. I actually only play with IRL friends, not with friends I met on the game only. I prefer to keep them, they are more important than the fact I could just have a random bringing more dps to end the boss 30-60sec earlier. I hope you do too, actually.

Edit 2 : To KaivaC : Harassement is only about repetition to me. Calling some people the way I did is not harassment in any way in my language. Isn't there any other real English word to express what I did? Or is harassment the real term? If so, then my bad, but in my language, harassing is only about repetition of a negative behaviour toward someone.
Putting words in my mouth is also a very quick way to annoy me. I don't see why I should be nice to people doing so.
Disagreeing is ok, if you disagree with what I said, there is no problem.