This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Melichoir]

Snip

If you understood my point, you wouldnt have posted what you did. I was not condoning or condemning parsers. Pointing out that there are ups and downs. That there WILL be people who will use it to attack others. And your response/inference was "I havent personally seen it, so must not be happening."

Youre second anecdotal point actually bears out my argument. Players who have a high opinion of themselves take the data from the parser and use it as a means of attacking other players. Im not suggesting that we shouldnt have parsers. Only that you will have to acknowledge that should they be incorporated, you will see an increase in that behavior as it becomes more readily accessible to the player population. There are ups to it, but there are also some downs. And what the Devs may be trying to avoid is excessive striation of the player base due to numbers not being high enough.

snip

So some quick things

Anecdotal experiences that say "I havent experienced it, therefore it does not happen" is not the same as anecdotal experiences of "Ive experienced it, so it must be happening on some level."

One is saying their experience is an absolute, the other is saying that their experience is proof that is is occurring in some capacity. So its nto canceling the other out. The second experience is outright refuting the first due to the applications of those experiences.

Also, yes. There ARE good people who want to help others. Im not saying they dont exist. In fact, they could very well be a majority of players. But that does not mean that there arent people who are jerks, or people who that theyre not in significant enough number to be damaging to the player base. It is really one of those things that a handful of jerks can spoil the whole experience.

Snip

Youre conflating in game mechanics with a function that is not necessary to the game, as well as arguing that some people are negative, so adding a parser to teh game wont change the status quo.

Parsers are, ultimately, not necessary for the game. They provide a LOT of useful info that definitely helps people, but they ultimately are not integral to beating a raid. If youre hitting an enrage, you already know its cause Damage is to low, so people need to review their class and practice it as well as gear and make sure theyre doing fight mechanics right. A parser can help you optimize, but again, is not a necessity. It is a creature comfort, nothing more. Unlike lets say a threat meter, which is necessary due to boss mechanics requiring swapping or making sure tank is the primary focus of the boss.

Furthermore, you will most likely see an increase in toxicity if it became a part of the game for two reasons. 1 is Greater access, means more trolls statistically, and two it will be argued that because its an official part of the game, it can be used as a means to weed out players from groups. This phenomenon has happened in other MMOs via other superficial additions. In WoW, when achievements were added, people soon were required to 'link their achievement' in order to join a group for content. No achievement, no access. This ended up striating the player base a bit and fueling some toxicity. It made it harder for enw players to experience the end game stuff and be a part of the community. Not impossible, just more difficult. And the reasoning was the same: Its officially a part of the game, therefore it can be used as a means to sort out the baddies from goodies.

The Devs may be aware of this, and trying to avoid that facet.

[Jijifli]

If you understood my point, you wouldnt have posted what you did. I was not condoning or condemning parsers. Pointing out that there are ups and downs. That there WILL be people who will use it to attack others. And your response/inference was "I havent personally seen it, so must not be happening."

Tell me if this helps.

Yes people can abuse it. Everything you put in the game can be abused. Wanna guess what I found the day Play Dead went on the mog station? Can probably guess when a M Lalafell sticks his butt up in the air. So should we remove Play Dead? Because some people are abusing it to do things they shouldn't?

Or what about another one. Sound Effects. You remember <se.7> right? People can abuse that to annoy you in chat, forcing a BL or to mute the game/section that the noise is tied to. Should we remove sound effects? They're useful for getting important mechanic related info out, but people can be mean with it, just like parsing is good for getting tons of combat information, but someone can be mean with it.

Also, I don't need a parser to tell you that your dps is trash. I can see it just fine by watching your rotation and enmity generation. Should we remove those enmity bars then? And animations?

[StarRosie]

Anecdotal experiences that say "I havent experienced it, therefore it does not happen" is not the same as anecdotal experiences of "Ive experienced it, so it must be happening on some level."

One is saying their experience is an absolute, the other is saying that their experience is proof that is is occurring in some capacity. So its nto canceling the other out. The second experience is outright refuting the first due to the applications of those experiences.

I have to disagree, Neither Bourne nor Sebazy seem to be saying "I don't see it, so it never happens." but asking for evidence that it happens and this is mostly due to perception. I'm merely taking a stab here, but I think it's a little on the money. But they may not see it due to them being in groups that use a parser either personally or responsibly. So it is not that they are saying "I've never seen this so it must never happen." but more "I've never seen this, can you please provide me an example so I can understand. Because the groups I run don't do this." if that makes any sense. Meanwhile, our perception is that we have been in groups that have jackholes that do use parsers in a abusive manner so we do know it happens and have either been victims of it or know victims of it and that can color one's perception in a discussion like this. But, like all tools, it is subject to abuse by some. A hammer is a tool but some will use it as a weapon. (No, I'm not gonna use the "Should we ban all hammers?!" argument, that's silly.)

Personally, I wish people wouldn't be huge dicks to eachother and we could all get along and hug it out! So, I don't like the idea of leaving a possible tool of abuse on the table. But we don't, so there isn't much I can do other then report those who use the hammer to kill people rather then pound in some nails. Sooner or later, either you'll weed out enough of the jerks that they won't be a problem anymore or the jerks will get the message and either shut up or tone down. But again, the majority shouldn't be punished for the acts of the minority.