This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Sebazy]

People don't like them because they aren't the one using them, and most people who do use them just aren't really clear/supportive about what information they are gleaning from it.

"You suck" is usually the default response. Rather than something constructive/informative.

The problem is, the current fight club rules tends to have most people keep mum about these things for fear of getting into trouble over it. If someone asks me how they are doing in a DF/PF pug, I certainly wouldn't ever paste anything into chat, the best I can do is give them a rough answer and go from there.

As this very thread demonstrates, it's almost the norm for many people to struggle with showing a fair degree of respect and courtesy to their fellow players when things aren't going well. That's not a parsing problem, neither is it an FFXIV issue. It's just how things seem to be with the lack of community and camaraderie that modern internet games have. 'Why should I be nice to that moron when I'm never even going to see them again' etc. It's a sad state of affairs imho =(

[HyoMinPark]

There are also people who use them and don't say anything at all, and I'd imagine, though I can't prove it, that the majority of parser users fall in that category.

I know several people like this.

I think a lot of them stay silent because some people are so quick to jump on the report-wagon at the slightest inkling of a suspicion that someone may be parsing (there was actually an individual on this forum who said they report anyone and everyone if they have the slightest suspicion that they think the person may be using a parser), and they would rather not get banned over saying something like “Please use your cooldowns” or “Please AOE so that things die faster” just because someone got offended that they were asked to do something simple.

I don’t even offer numbers if someone outright asks for them. Because you never know if someone will get all angry about it and report you for it. (There were people going around reporting PFs for parse/speed runs in DF a couple months ago, so people stopped putting them up; at least the people in one of the optimization discord’s I’m in did, because they got nasty grams from GMs over it.)

[Melichoir]

Problem with Parser's is a two fold issue.

On the one hand, theyre a very helpful tool for gauging whether youre getting the best bang for your buck as your class. In that light, theyre useful.

But on the other hand, people use them as a measure of worth, and as a means to disqualify people from even participating. It's fine to mention to people that there are ways to improve DPS, but it becomes the issue when they say "Oh, as a 'X', you need to be doing XXXX DPS or GTFO you scrub. Youre trash!"

And there are plenty of people who USE it as such, particularly when they think they know better when they themselves are really mediocre. Ive seen it before too. Oh, this Dragoon isnt doing 7k DPS. Therye only doing 6.9k. Theyre utter trash. (Fictional numbers). Thats toxic AF and not productive.

[Sebazy]

And there are plenty of people who USE it as such, particularly when they think they know better when they themselves are really mediocre. Ive seen it before too. Oh, this Dragoon isnt doing 7k DPS. Therye only doing 6.9k. Theyre utter trash. (Fictional numbers). Thats toxic AF and not productive.

Thing is, I've raided somewhere between world progression and fairly hardcore from launch (with some pretty highly strung individuals no less), and I've never actually seen this happen first hand. Why is that?

[Jijifli]

And there are plenty of people who USE it as such, particularly when they think they know better when they themselves are really mediocre. Ive seen it before too. Oh, this Dragoon isnt doing 7k DPS. Therye only doing 6.9k. Theyre utter trash. (Fictional numbers). Thats toxic AF and not productive.

There are plenty of people who use chat to harass others, so let's remove chat.

Don't forget the Lalafell's going all /comfort on the females to touch butts. That's sexual harassment, better remove Lalafells or Emotes.

Did you know in Deltascape 3 if you fail the role squares the boss questions your basic brain function? That's mean, better remove the boss.

Just because someone CAN be rude with something doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. 90% of things in games can be abused in some way that negatively hits another player. We have a report function. We should use it if people harass you for not doing 7k dps in expert.

[akaneakki]

Thing is, I've raided somewhere between world progression and fairly hardcore from launch (with some pretty highly strung individuals no less), and I've never actually seen this happen first hand. Why is that?

Never seen that either, I'd like some proof on that actually and not something that's made up like OP did.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And there are plenty of people who USE it as such, particularly when they think they know better when they themselves are really mediocre. Ive seen it before too. Oh, this Dragoon isnt doing 7k DPS. Therye only doing 6.9k. Theyre utter trash. (Fictional numbers). Thats toxic AF and not productive.

Likewise, I have yet to see this from actually good players. In fact, Angered and Elysium ran sub-optimal comps in their World Firsts Neo clears. Both ran Samurai, though Angered switched to Monk. Even better is groups clearing Ultimate with Dark Knight. The idea high end raiders are wide-spread trashing anyone slightly below 99% is a myth.

[Melichoir]

People seem to not be understanding my point. So Ill clarify.

On the one hand, Parsers are good because they can tell you a lot of useful information for raid Content. On the other hand, it can be used to abuse other players, particularly by those who tend to have a very high opinion of themselves.

There are of course high end raiders who do well, and foster positive group interactions and use Parser's appropriately. But there are people who are quite the opposite, and use parsers as a cudgel to judge and dismiss players because their numbers arent high enough. Or in short, they use the Parser to Trash Talk other players.

If you havent experienced this, groovy. But your personal experiences arent evidence it does not occur at all. Merely that you have not encountered players who do this. Thats all it means. But there are plenty of personal accounts who have said they have encountered players like this (in raids, in dungeons, in Trials) in some capacity.

[Sebazy]

People seem to not be understanding my point. So Ill clarify.

I think we fully understand what your point is, in my case, I just think it's disproportionate to the reality of the situation.

I had a Rabanstre today where the group struggled to make it past Mateus and literally had no hope in hell of ever getting past Hashmal without some serious improvement. One guy had been trolling in /a for most of the run and after a wipe where both other groups had their orbs explode, he proceeded to trash talk about DPS and even claimed he was top of the list.

The fun past was, he wasn't, not even close.

Was that a fault of le parser? No, not at all, the guy was just an idiot/troll. Parsing had nothing to do with it.

Some people will just be a hazard irrespective of what tools they have in their hands, take the gun away and they'll use a van.

[StarRosie]

snip.

But that is still anecdotal evidence. Basically both sides counter each other's points with anecdotal evidence and personal experiences. Trust me, when I was starting to dip into raid content or savage back in HW, I dealt with a couple rather toxic parser folks, but like most groups, I understand that some experiences are not representative of the group as a whole. While I personally do not parse and have no desire too and I am sure pro parser folks don't mind that, I don't mind or care in the grand scheme of things if they do parse. Yes, people will abuse others with parsers and logs, yes in the grand scheme that abuse isn't really comparable to emote or chat abuse, BUT! There are way more who either use the tool personally and keep to themselves or keep to within their close group of friends. We should not persecute the majority for the acts of the minority.

I am personally rather neutral these days in this debate, I think some things with FFlogs should change a bit and that would alleviate some, if not the majority of the abuse claims with logs. But again, whole different discussion. But I do not think the overall group should be judged based on the actions of a few. If that were the case then the anti parser side will require equal punishment, cause lord knows they aren't innocent in this debate.

You can go through this whole thread and see both sides basically bein' dicks to eachother, using personal experiences as evidence to 'crush' the opposing opinion and overall doing the same thing back and forth. If you encounter someone who is being a dick with parsers and logs. Report them and move on cause that is literally the best you can do right now. Save copies of the conversation if ya need to.

But if you look, it is very clear that there are more reasonable and overall nice people who use parsers. Not to single out but quickest to come to mind are Bourne and Hyomin (Though I could just be guessing they use them...I don't think I've seen them directly say they do.), while I don't agree with all of the things they say, both seem like good people who just wanna help and I wouldn't wanna see folks like them get punished for the actions of people they probably don't even know.

I'm gonna stop here for now. All my thoughts aren't gather for this post and overall I'm rambling (And still at work...I think my boss is eyeing me with his nerf gun...) so, I may edit with more when I get home. Just...idk, don't be closed out to listening to the other side I guess? That goes for both sides? Eh.