This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Adeacia]

I've always been torn between wanting an ingame parser, and not wanting one.

On one hand, when I was in a static, I asked for my numbers. I wanted that information.

On the other hand, that information is something that I personally believe should never actually be seen by players for reasons I see here. Talking about having a certain dps amount, clipping cooldowns, and other fine details that bring people into wanting pretty much perfect play. Or "My job does 0.01 dps less than another one, its unbalanced!"

Yes, dps checks / enrage is a thing but you shouldn't need this info to see where you may need work. If you need to squeeze every single possible point out of every player just to clear, then you think maybe you are a tad undergeared? "But Adeacia, what about world first groups?" Yeah, what about them? You act as if they actually matter overall. People who take time off from work just to play this have other issues to think about.

When I was doing Lakshmi EX (a stupidly easy fight, as we all know) when it just came out, the party I was in kept hitting enrage. It didn't take a parser to figure out who was lagging behind on dps. To fix it, I simply went to town with my own dps (I'm a healer) every chance I got and we cleared from then on. Now healers should not be required to dps at all to make up for lack of dps from actual dps, but I like doing it and wanted to actually start getting clears.

To summarize, in my experience (even in savage) it's pretty clear who is lagging and what they need to work on making a parser not needed to begin with.

[akaneakki]

Yes, dps checks / enrage is a thing but you shouldn't need this info to see where you may need work. If you need to squeeze every single possible point out of every player just to clear, then you think maybe you are a tad undergeared? ".

When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.
This was also an enrage btw.

[Adeacia]

When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.

I was specifically talking about expecting perfect play on every person in the party. My fault for not making that clear enough. I agree that people with lower gear can outdamage people with better gear. It happens all the time. You just shouldn't need a parser to realize someone is lagging behind is what I mean. I know when I mess up my rotation on BRD or let a dot fall off for example. Don't need a parser to tell me that I messed up and my dps is lower than it should have been.

[akaneakki]

I was specifically talking about expecting perfect play on every person in the party. My fault for not making that clear enough. I agree that people with lower gear can outdamage people with better gear. It happens all the time. You just shouldn't need a parser to realize someone is lagging behind is what I mean. I know when I mess up my rotation on BRD or let a dot fall off for example. Don't need a parser to tell me that I messed up and my dps is lower than it should have been.

Yeah that's np. But honestly if you do as low as OP or those guys did at ilvl 340, you dont even have the basic rotation even going on, you are legit spamming buttons all day without know whats going on.
A parser doesn't only tell you the damage, there is so much more than that

[Gleipni]

When we progged first week and I died I did more dps than those who never die as ilvl 340 and they should still do more than what I did when they die 1 time too. Gear isn't going to magicaly make you a great dps.
https://imgur.com/rrl6vRk Look at the link.
This was today and the dps died once.. ONCE!!!! and look at the top, the warrior was doing most of the damage and this was a group of full 340. Explain to me why this is happening.
This was also an enrage btw.

MAn,that parse is sad,clearly,without the 340 stuff you get for free in rabanastre,tehy would never beat any thing.

[HyoMinPark]

I have to strongly disagree with you, Adeacia, and here’s why (not trying to argue, but I want you to know why I disagree with your post and its points):

On the other hand, that information is something that I personally believe should never actually be seen by players for reasons I see here. Talking about having a certain dps amount, clipping cooldowns, and other fine details that bring people into wanting pretty much perfect play.

This is false. If you read a lot of the parser discussions that go on around here, you would see that a lot of people that want an in-game parser (or who already parse) do not expect 95th percentile play out of random players; I don’t even think they expect 75th percentile play out of them They expect for DPS to do more DPS than a tank, yes, but they do not expect perfection.

The OP is being singled out for their poor DPS because, as a 340 MCH with zero deaths in most of their previous Savage fights, they are pulling below average numbers compared to other MCHs at the same, or even a lower, ilvl; in the fight that is the main complaint of this thread, they were pulling less damage than the tanks. Sure, they died, but one death should not send a DPS below a tank in terms of outgoing damage; it usually takes 2~3 deaths. That, and because they came here looking for sympathy over supposed griefing via parsers that never actually happened (the WAR and AST from that party chimed in to say that there was no harassment over DPS or parsers).

That being said, if a group does not have a certain amount of collective DPS, they will hit enrage. How do players figure out how much rDPS is needed to clear a fight before enrage? With a parser. Because there is no other way to figure that out.

"But Adeacia, what about world first groups?" Yeah, what about them? You act as if they actually matter overall. People who take time off from work just to play this have other issues to think about.

I’m...not really clear on how your comment about world-first raiders comes into play here, but...what world first raiders do is entirely up to them. They enjoy raiding and progging 15~16 hours a day. If they choose to take time off from work or other real-life obligations to win a world-first race, then that’s what they want to do. But don’t say they don’t matter, since some of them are ones who make guides to help more casual/midcore raiders progress (e.g., Xeno), or guides to help with job optimization (e.g., Miyuri gives out a lot of wonderful information about BRD gameplay and optimization).

That being said, since this game does absolutely nothing to teach players a proper endgame or optimized rotation, players that want to push themselves have to turn to outside sources. They don’t have a choice. There’s no accurate way to analyze your performance outside of trial and error with a parser; that’s one way theorycrafters figure out the most optimized rotations and stat weights for certain jobs.

Yeah, the game has SSS, but SSS is not an accurate representation of DPS, because it doesn’t account for things like party buffs (or some self-buffs; I believe Dragon Sight is not accounted for in SSS dummy tests, but would need a DRG to confirm this since I don’t play the job at a Savage level) or mechanics, and the fight is based around a 3-minute target dummy. Not a good representation of an actual fight. A person may be able to clear the dummy, but may not be able to clear the fight.

Yes, dps checks / enrage is a thing but you shouldn't need this info to see where you may need work. If you need to squeeze every single possible point out of every player just to clear, then you think maybe you are a tad undergeared?

If you “have to squeeze out every point” from a player in order to clear a piece of content, then that player is not ready for said content. And it doesn’t even have anything to do with their gear, really (Omega Savage is clearable without full i340). It could be raid awareness (do they die a lot to failed mechanics?), rotation (are they using an old HW rotation, or a suboptimal one that ignores core aspects of the job?), anything really. A player can be i340 and have no idea how to actually play the job they’re rolling (I ran into such a player today in my Expert Roulette—a BRD that used their songs maybe 5 times the entirety of Skalla, and they have cleared V3S).

When I was doing Lakshmi EX (a stupidly easy fight, as we all know) when it just came out, the party I was in kept hitting enrage. It didn't take a parser to figure out who was lagging behind on dps. To fix it, I simply went to town with my own dps (I'm a healer) every chance I got and we cleared from then on. Now healers should not be required to dps at all to make up for lack of dps from actual dps, but I like doing it and wanted to actually start getting clears.

But, could you point out which DPS was specifically lacking? With no numbers to go off of, how would you know which DPS you had to pick up the slack on as a healer to clear? You can’t really unless it’s glaringly obvious. Which brings me to my next point:

To summarize, in my experience (even in savage) it's pretty clear who is lagging and what they need to work on making a parser not needed to begin with.

Not always. Take a ShinEx group I was in. We had such low DPS that we were seeing a second Tidal Wave in first phase. The DPS were: me on RDM (i339), a MCH (in mostly 340 with some 330 pieces), a MNK (crafted 320), and I think the other was a DRG or SAM...another melee DPS (mostly in 330~340). At first glance, who do you think would have such low DPS that we were seeing a second Tidal Wave in first phase? Just going off of things like gear and weapons?

Most people would probably assume the MNK in the crafted 320 gear, but that is incorrect. It was actually the MCH. The MCH was doing less damage than our tanks with no deaths. The MNK had to die twice for them to finally dip below the MCH, and the only reason they died was due to healer neglect (they were targeted for Earth Breath and died to the Sludge DoT, and then just weren’t topped off enough after being raised and died to Ice Storm).

Bottom line is, you can’t always tell who is lagging behind without a parser unless it’s something glaringly obvious, like a BRD that doesn’t use their songs (lack of the critical up buff is the telltale sign there) or a caster where you can actively watch their cast bar to see what they’re doing. To imply that a parser isn’t needed to see performance is incorrect.

(As an aside to this post, another Expert Roulette I was doing, we had a WAR that was just astounded that the DPS was so high on the trash packs [DPS was me on BRD and a random SMN who was just killing it, even with an i320 weapon; their damage was astounding] because they were under the impression that both SMN and BRD were considered “weak DPS”. After informing them that SMN is wiping the floor with just about every DPS job out there, and BRD is nothing to really scoff at, even if it’s near the bottom, they were absolutely shocked, because they had never heard of SMN or BRD being considered strong DPS jobs. This is just another example of you can’t always tell who is “weak” or “falling behind”, and who is “a god” in terms of DPS/performance without a tool showing you raw, numerical data.)