This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[StarRosie]

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

Not answering for Kakiko but to give a little idea.

Privacy for one, yes I know MMO and all that but some level of privacy is allowed even in MMOs. I mean lodestone has options to hide your info or set it to friends only so why can't I with logs? But yeah, I enjoy having a mild bit of privacy and the ability to show this info to people I trust rather than leave it for any random Joe or Jill schmoe to search up. To be honest, if FFlogs had logs set to private by default rather than its current "You have to log into our site, link your character and claim it in order to set to private." system, I'd be a lot less...skeeved out by the whole thing but that is overall a different discussion.

Secondly, while I personally don't have much to hide, I don't like the idea of someone just being able to search up my character and attempt a "GOTCHA! YOU SUCK!" post or something. (No, not saying that's all people do with logs or anything just...it’s an example I guess?). But yeah, the whole "Someone being able to look up your character and see every raid, trial, and bit of content you've done." concept really creeps me out and I don't like that, so I hide that stuff to keep some form of privacy. If I want to discuss my overall performance or my track record with people, I want it to be with people I trust and know aren't going to be asses or condescending about it. (I know, I repeat myself a lot but it helps get the points across.)

Thirdly, cause it calms my anxiety down. I am a frickin' mess of anxiety, my mind will take tiny things and run them through every possible scenario it can till it finds the most frightening, crippling outcome and then constantly tell me "This is gonna happen if you join that PF. HEHEHEHEHE!" so having my logs and stuff set to private to have a thing to tell my mind "No it won't cause this is all set to private so they can't just look me up and do that." helps calm me down. Also if I'm kicked cause I won't share this stuff, then those aren't the types of players I wanna hang out with.

Fourth, because I can. Just because logs or the like are recorded by other people and posted without my consent or knowledge, does not mean it is suddenly everyone's right to scrutinize, critique, point out, or overall judge my entire career as a player. They are still MY LOGS and if I wanna hide them, then that is my right. This doesn't automatically make me a bad player it just means I'm exercising my right as a person, to a bit of privacy.

People hiding their logs doesn't instantly equate to bad/lazy/poor/shitty player who wants to be carried. Some people may have legitimate reasons to hide their logs or hide their info. So yeah, if you are saying "If you hide your logs, you are probably a bad player." Then yes, you are painting with a SUPER WIDE BRUSH!

I know someone is gonna come out and basically do a "You're totally wrong, lol." counter argument post and tell me how I'm stupid or something for wanting a little privacy and overall, I don't care. I was merely offering a few examples from my point of view for why someone might hide their logs and such and if you don't agree with them, that is fine but I'm not really gonna budge from this. I enjoy privacy and control over my own data and information. If that makes me a 'bad player', then ok, I'm fine with being a 'bad player'.

Anyways, have a lovely day and thank you for reading.

[Sebazy]

SE just needs to break parsers like Blizzard did with certain addons that made fights super super easy.

Why?

When I mess up as a healer and people don't get topped in-time or such, it's generally fairly obvious what happened even with chat logs alone, more so with a video recording. As such, I'll need to up my game, adjust and sort it out or get replaced for someone who can do it.

When a tank messes up and gets themselves one shot by a mechanic, fails their positioning and get's the raid cleaved, doesn't pick up an add in time or such, it's generally fairly obvious what happened even with chat logs alone, more so with a video recording. As such, they need to up their game, adjust and sort it out or get replaced for someone who can do it.

When a DPS messes up and fails a mechanic, it's typically fairly obvious what happened, however, when they fail the DPS check as a collective whole it's very difficult to tell what went wrong with chat logs alone and only marginally easier with a video replay (Unless you've got PoVs for each DPS in fairness).

What makes DPS such special snowflakes that they are above criticism and unaccountable to their standard of play in Savage content when neither Tanks nor Healers have anything like that luxury in their core role? Should I and 3 other 'support' players be obligated to endure banging our heads against a brick wall purely because we got unlucky enough to land too DPS that either couldn't be bothered or simply don't understand how to play their role to at least an average standard?

Like or not, the sad reality is that the current endgame is still very DPS centric, until SE step in and provide the tools end game orientated players need to gauge their own performance accurately and relevantly, other people will step in with tools of their own.

[Kakiko]

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

It was more in response to this:

Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting).

Than the first, although in regards to the first:

Not everyone who wants to set their logs to private does so because they have something to hide. I absolutely detest that excuse for any sort of discussion like this ("oh well, if you've nothing to hide then you don't have to worry"). As I mentioned in my earlier post, situations can arise where someone runs to the forums or to Reddit to remark about how this player or that player, even without saying names, was doing crap damage. Look at how this very thread started as proof. But, you only get one side of the story. Maybe that player people complain about thought they were doing the best they could? There's a lot of room for "what ifs" and assumptions when logs are made public and someone isn't performing as well as you think they should. That's what I don't care for. I know there have been times when my own numbers dipped because I was experiencing lag, and lately I think my keyboard needs to be replaced as my tab-target isn't working properly sometimes. So, if someone were to run off to to the forums or Reddit to make a thread about how the DPS in that instance was crap and they had to carry the little DPS, even if they didn't say my name - it's still there in the log with no explanation of why my numbers were terrible or why maybe my rotation was shoddy. It's not that I have something to HIDE, it's just that you're only ever going to get one side of the story.

My comment though was more in regards to the second part. Up until a few days ago, I didn't have FFlogs and as of right now, anything I upload isn't showing as there being any fight there anyway (because I can't figure out how to make it work properly, despite watching videos and reading different sites). So for all intents and purposes, it looks like I have nothing. So, if I join something even if it's something I am fairly confident in, by the quoted segment's logic, the group is going to "know" they got someone who wants a carry just because they can't see any of my logs. What about people who didn't know about FFLogs (like.. me.. up until like a week ago)? Or people who can't figure out how to make them work? There are also people out there who don't care about logs at all, and so haven't ever downloaded anything or looked into it because to them it's not a priority and they don't want to spend their time on it. Not everyone who doesn't have them are looking for a carry. Not everyone going into a farm group without a prior clear is looking for a carry (although it's kind of dumb to go into a farm if you're not at least somewhat aware of the mechanics). Or, again, they see my name in logs where I was having an off day, or any other issue, and decide I "deserve" a blacklist (according to the quoted post's logic).

The use of definites is what makes it a wide brush. Yes, maybe some people without logs hope for a carry. Maybe some people without a clear are hoping for a carry. But that doesn't include everyone and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

[Deceptus]

Anytime a game has a quantifiable DPS check that must be made there simply needs to be a way to check dps numbers.

That's the only way you're ever going to be able to see who is pulling their weight and who is slacking.

[PArcher]

SNIP

Problem is, its an absolutely tiny minority that can clear current content fine but has nothing on FFLogs. I wait a few hours after running anything now because its almost a guarantee that someone else is uploading the runs

I've PFed farm parties a lot (though not as much recently because the quality of players right now is abysmal. Most good players are on break til 4.2 or have everything they want) and yeah, people with no logs are almost always dragging the party down. Its better to just boot them and get someone who has proof they can farm than take the chance and spend time wiping (or worse, going in and seeing the newbie bonus pop up).

[Kaethra]

Like in the case of the OP and how 3 of 4 dpses did less than tanks, from SEs standpoint, the group did the thing, they beat the challenge they set for the encounter and thats all that matters to them.

They didn't complete the encounter, not until 3 DPS were kicked from the group. Which 'supposedly' was a rules violation according to SE. That's why its weird. Even though booting the DPS and getting better ones could potentially make the run a success.

If a tank dies to a tank buster because they didn't use a CD, they can be booted for it. No violation of any rules. If a DPS does too little damage and you use a parser to determine that (since its the only way to do so), and boot them for doing too little. Despite that being just as important and vital as a tank using a CD, its considered 'harassment'.

Of course I use quotes because its still hearsay to me, I've never seen an instance of someone being actioned for this personally.

[Kakiko]

*snip*

Then, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

[PArcher]

They didn't complete the encounter, not until 3 DPS were kicked from the group. Which 'supposedly' was a rules violation according to SE. That's why its weird. Even though booting the DPS and getting better ones could potentially make the run a success..

As long as nothing is said in chat about the parse when kicking, there's nothing that can be reported. GMs have said you can boot someone for differing playstyles (so if they say, "this isn't working out, we need to find other people" its perfectly fine to kick)

[PArcher]

Then, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

There is nothing elitist for expecting people joining a farm party to be able to pull their weight. Being able to check that someone can perform at a basic competency saves time and makes things more efficient.

EDIT: And yes, if you join a farm looking to be carried, you do deserve the kick and blacklist (especially if you haven't cleared yet). Its disrespectful to those who have put in the time and effort to get things on farm and they can definitely take steps to avoid having to deal with a player like that.

[Kakiko]

There is nothing elitist for expecting people joining a farm party to be able to pull their weight. Being able to check that someone can perform at a basic competency saves time and makes things more efficient.

I don't disagree that having people in a farm party who can pull their weight and competently complete the content isn't elitist. That wasn't even what I was calling elitist in my post you quoted. However, my counter to you would then be: why not join a static, or an fc, or a group of friends and farm, rather than rely on PF which can bring you people you find less desirable and not up to your standards (standards which are subjective to every player).