This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[PArcher]

Well I've got parse data on there despite not having access to a parser. It should be set to hidden by default as you have to know it exists to be able to do that. FFlogs should not be treated as something that is required in end game.

I'll be completely honest here; most people who do not want data on them almost always have something to hide. Here, its usually really poor play because they don't want to put the effort in to learning how to play their job properly and want to get carried (includes tanks who don't swap into DPS stance or never use cooldowns and 0 DPS healers). In the endgame, you are expected to know your job and actually try to do well, FFLogs is one easy tool to use to check that.

Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting).

[Kakiko]

*snip*

That's a super wide brush you're using.

[HyoMinPark]

That's a super wide brush you're using.

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

There's more to toxic than just parsing someone...

This. Never forget when I first started playing back in 3.1 (so the darks days of BRD), and people kept telling me that I was trash for playing a trash job like BRD. That I should stop playing BRD because it was a horrible job and weak and I was trash for just loving it, cast bars and all.

Nothing about parsers or parsing in those comments. But they are just as toxic.

[StarRosie]

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

Not answering for Kakiko but to give a little idea.

Privacy for one, yes I know MMO and all that but some level of privacy is allowed even in MMOs. I mean lodestone has options to hide your info or set it to friends only so why can't I with logs? But yeah, I enjoy having a mild bit of privacy and the ability to show this info to people I trust rather than leave it for any random Joe or Jill schmoe to search up. To be honest, if FFlogs had logs set to private by default rather than its current "You have to log into our site, link your character and claim it in order to set to private." system, I'd be a lot less...skeeved out by the whole thing but that is overall a different discussion.

Secondly, while I personally don't have much to hide, I don't like the idea of someone just being able to search up my character and attempt a "GOTCHA! YOU SUCK!" post or something. (No, not saying that's all people do with logs or anything just...it’s an example I guess?). But yeah, the whole "Someone being able to look up your character and see every raid, trial, and bit of content you've done." concept really creeps me out and I don't like that, so I hide that stuff to keep some form of privacy. If I want to discuss my overall performance or my track record with people, I want it to be with people I trust and know aren't going to be asses or condescending about it. (I know, I repeat myself a lot but it helps get the points across.)

Thirdly, cause it calms my anxiety down. I am a frickin' mess of anxiety, my mind will take tiny things and run them through every possible scenario it can till it finds the most frightening, crippling outcome and then constantly tell me "This is gonna happen if you join that PF. HEHEHEHEHE!" so having my logs and stuff set to private to have a thing to tell my mind "No it won't cause this is all set to private so they can't just look me up and do that." helps calm me down. Also if I'm kicked cause I won't share this stuff, then those aren't the types of players I wanna hang out with.

Fourth, because I can. Just because logs or the like are recorded by other people and posted without my consent or knowledge, does not mean it is suddenly everyone's right to scrutinize, critique, point out, or overall judge my entire career as a player. They are still MY LOGS and if I wanna hide them, then that is my right. This doesn't automatically make me a bad player it just means I'm exercising my right as a person, to a bit of privacy.

People hiding their logs doesn't instantly equate to bad/lazy/poor/shitty player who wants to be carried. Some people may have legitimate reasons to hide their logs or hide their info. So yeah, if you are saying "If you hide your logs, you are probably a bad player." Then yes, you are painting with a SUPER WIDE BRUSH!

I know someone is gonna come out and basically do a "You're totally wrong, lol." counter argument post and tell me how I'm stupid or something for wanting a little privacy and overall, I don't care. I was merely offering a few examples from my point of view for why someone might hide their logs and such and if you don't agree with them, that is fine but I'm not really gonna budge from this. I enjoy privacy and control over my own data and information. If that makes me a 'bad player', then ok, I'm fine with being a 'bad player'.

Anyways, have a lovely day and thank you for reading.

[Kakiko]

How so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?

It was more in response to this:

Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting).

Than the first, although in regards to the first:

Not everyone who wants to set their logs to private does so because they have something to hide. I absolutely detest that excuse for any sort of discussion like this ("oh well, if you've nothing to hide then you don't have to worry"). As I mentioned in my earlier post, situations can arise where someone runs to the forums or to Reddit to remark about how this player or that player, even without saying names, was doing crap damage. Look at how this very thread started as proof. But, you only get one side of the story. Maybe that player people complain about thought they were doing the best they could? There's a lot of room for "what ifs" and assumptions when logs are made public and someone isn't performing as well as you think they should. That's what I don't care for. I know there have been times when my own numbers dipped because I was experiencing lag, and lately I think my keyboard needs to be replaced as my tab-target isn't working properly sometimes. So, if someone were to run off to to the forums or Reddit to make a thread about how the DPS in that instance was crap and they had to carry the little DPS, even if they didn't say my name - it's still there in the log with no explanation of why my numbers were terrible or why maybe my rotation was shoddy. It's not that I have something to HIDE, it's just that you're only ever going to get one side of the story.

My comment though was more in regards to the second part. Up until a few days ago, I didn't have FFlogs and as of right now, anything I upload isn't showing as there being any fight there anyway (because I can't figure out how to make it work properly, despite watching videos and reading different sites). So for all intents and purposes, it looks like I have nothing. So, if I join something even if it's something I am fairly confident in, by the quoted segment's logic, the group is going to "know" they got someone who wants a carry just because they can't see any of my logs. What about people who didn't know about FFLogs (like.. me.. up until like a week ago)? Or people who can't figure out how to make them work? There are also people out there who don't care about logs at all, and so haven't ever downloaded anything or looked into it because to them it's not a priority and they don't want to spend their time on it. Not everyone who doesn't have them are looking for a carry. Not everyone going into a farm group without a prior clear is looking for a carry (although it's kind of dumb to go into a farm if you're not at least somewhat aware of the mechanics). Or, again, they see my name in logs where I was having an off day, or any other issue, and decide I "deserve" a blacklist (according to the quoted post's logic).

The use of definites is what makes it a wide brush. Yes, maybe some people without logs hope for a carry. Maybe some people without a clear are hoping for a carry. But that doesn't include everyone and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

[PArcher]

SNIP

Problem is, its an absolutely tiny minority that can clear current content fine but has nothing on FFLogs. I wait a few hours after running anything now because its almost a guarantee that someone else is uploading the runs

I've PFed farm parties a lot (though not as much recently because the quality of players right now is abysmal. Most good players are on break til 4.2 or have everything they want) and yeah, people with no logs are almost always dragging the party down. Its better to just boot them and get someone who has proof they can farm than take the chance and spend time wiping (or worse, going in and seeing the newbie bonus pop up).

[Kakiko]

*snip*

Then, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

[PArcher]

Then, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

There is nothing elitist for expecting people joining a farm party to be able to pull their weight. Being able to check that someone can perform at a basic competency saves time and makes things more efficient.

EDIT: And yes, if you join a farm looking to be carried, you do deserve the kick and blacklist (especially if you haven't cleared yet). Its disrespectful to those who have put in the time and effort to get things on farm and they can definitely take steps to avoid having to deal with a player like that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Then, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.

I'll bluntly state, I typically check everyone's logs who join a farm party I've involved with for no other reason than to gauge my expectations. The less experience, the less likely I'll stay beyond a handful of attempts because I just don't believe enough players have the skill to clear. When I plan to farm something like Shinryu EX, I'm looking for fast and efficient runs, not multiple wipes to silly mistakes. Why? Because unless I get lucky, I'll be doing this for a minimum of 99 times. Now exceptions can be made. If the group has a good atmosphere and makes the attempts humorous, I may stick around longer even if it's less productive. I don't simply look at FFlogs, see a bunch of green and grey and immediately think you're trash. I just like knowing what I'm getting into, especially if I'm on tank or healer. A weaker co-tank means I may have to adjust my playstyle. Likewise, on healer, I am very aggressive and like having a general idea of what my co-healer can handle. If they have grey parses, I'm going to be far more DPS oriented to make up for their lack of damage. On the other hand, if their HPS is equally low, or they tend to DPS only, I know to put myself in the "healer" role.

Basically, FFlogs gives me a buffer instead of adjusting while completely blind. If you hide your logs, sorry, but I will assume you have something to hide. That may not be the case, however many people I've come across do so to hide poor performance.

it's still there in the log with no explanation of why my numbers were terrible or why maybe my rotation was shoddy.

Like Hoodrat mentioned, FFlogs provides that context if you know how to use it properly. I can deduce exactly how you died, what killed you and why. Right up to if it was someone else's mistake that snowballed.

[Inuk9]

Problem is, its an absolutely tiny minority that can clear current content fine but has nothing on FFLogs.) (..)

(..)and yeah, people with no logs are almost always dragging the party down. .

I mean, you can be right but that creates a community gate, I will use me as example. my character name is Cacho'rro Dos'ventos from Behemoth, my main is Warrior you can see my logs to verify my history.

At first I had almost no logs/grey logs and good thing I had friends to play with. Imagine if I had to PF content to learn how to farm those fights? (Note: Learn how to properly optimize your job, the boss rotations and stuff, not learning the fight).

So, I've learned O1s and O2s good enough to get purple logs because of those friend guild runs. What would happen if I never had the chance to do that?

Still working to get purples on O3s and O4s tho.