This is why this game should'nt get a parse

[Kaethra]

Like in the case of the OP and how 3 of 4 dpses did less than tanks, from SEs standpoint, the group did the thing, they beat the challenge they set for the encounter and thats all that matters to them.

They didn't complete the encounter, not until 3 DPS were kicked from the group. Which 'supposedly' was a rules violation according to SE. That's why its weird. Even though booting the DPS and getting better ones could potentially make the run a success.

If a tank dies to a tank buster because they didn't use a CD, they can be booted for it. No violation of any rules. If a DPS does too little damage and you use a parser to determine that (since its the only way to do so), and boot them for doing too little. Despite that being just as important and vital as a tank using a CD, its considered 'harassment'.

Of course I use quotes because its still hearsay to me, I've never seen an instance of someone being actioned for this personally.

[PArcher]

They didn't complete the encounter, not until 3 DPS were kicked from the group. Which 'supposedly' was a rules violation according to SE. That's why its weird. Even though booting the DPS and getting better ones could potentially make the run a success..

As long as nothing is said in chat about the parse when kicking, there's nothing that can be reported. GMs have said you can boot someone for differing playstyles (so if they say, "this isn't working out, we need to find other people" its perfectly fine to kick)

[Baalfrog]

They didn't complete the encounter, not until 3 DPS were kicked from the group. Which 'supposedly' was a rules violation according to SE. That's why its weird. Even though booting the DPS and getting better ones could potentially make the run a success.

If a tank dies to a tank buster because they didn't use a CD, they can be booted for it. No violation of any rules. If a DPS does too little damage and you use a parser to determine that (since its the only way to do so), and boot them for doing too little. Despite that being just as important and vital as a tank using a CD, its considered 'harassment'.

Of course I use quotes because its still hearsay to me, I've never seen an instance of someone being actioned for this personally.

They did, the log in question has a kill in it.

Also kicking people cause they are not good enough for your standards and such is not a rules violation, it falls under the "different playstyle" and is perfectly fine with the GMs. Like if im in a dungeon with 3 friends, and the rando we get is Timmy the Icemage, we are in the right to kick them if they don't stop being like that after being told to stop. That said, you don't need to say anything, but since GMs check the chat logs, you might want to say something as to why they are being kicked.

[Tridus]

If a tank dies to a tank buster because they didn't use a CD, they can be booted for it. No violation of any rules. If a DPS does too little damage and you use a parser to determine that (since its the only way to do so), and boot them for doing too little. Despite that being just as important and vital as a tank using a CD, its considered 'harassment'.

There's a serious double standard on this stuff. Tank and healer poor play is very, very visible and very, very obvious. DPS are okay with that.

Parsers make DPS poor play very, very obvious. DPS think that's massively unfair, elitist, and toxic.

DPS then wonder why they have 20 minute queues waiting for tanks and healers.

[HyoMinPark]

@Kakiko -- I appreciate the full response and the clarification. But I will say that the argument still holds as somewhat valid; if you aren't ashamed of your logs, why hide them at all? Here's why I think that:

Any person worth their salt who goes through logs will easily separate poor play from shoddy circumstances. I will use my V3S clear as an example--my overall DPS was abysmal, but I died three times. I was clipped twice by two people's Folio's (neither were my fault--one was the other BRD who ran into my same Library tile I had already been standing in, and did not move to adjust so I tried to scramble the last minute and couldn't make it; second was a tank and they actually ended up killing my friend on SAM, too later on--no big deal, we had a laugh about that one), and the third death was me screwing up Mindjack reapers because I got greedy (and because I will openly admit that I am awful at that mechanic). The comp also did not have a DRG, so as a BRD, I lose 300-400 DPS right there (it was actually double BRD, SAM, and I think NIN was the other DPS; maybe RDM, I would have to double-check). Anyone looking at that grey would see "Well, 3 deaths, two were clips from Folio, one they messed up, no DRG, definitely doesn't have anywhere near BiS for BRD, so that's why their damage was low". It wasn't even 3k.

Same thing for poor performers. I once had a MNK who used the following rotation: Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Rockbreaker. Every time. In V2S. And it was a farm group. Someone analyzing those logs can see: "Well, their damage is awful because they are using an AOE rotation on a single target and ignoring their other skills". Analysis of logs is key, and I say this the anyone who says people judge based off of just the percentile alone--there's more to it than just that ranking. Hence why you dig deeper. You can't do that if someone hides them; and when people do that, everyone automatically assumes they have something to hide, so it doesn't work out in their favor, in the end.

More research can also be done, such as looking at a player's gear. That's why I said OP should be pulling more than 3,500-4,000 DPS on a MCH. Because their MCH is 340--may not be BiS because no Genji body or Genji weapon, but the secondaries aren't weighed as much right now to cause a 1,000 DPS discrepancy.

Bottom line (because I feel like I'm rambling) is people have to dig deeper into those runs to see WHY damage was so low. Instead of just basing it off of a 19 median. Analyze the logs; look at the rotation, look at their gear, look at the comp (especially important for BRD/MCH because of their reliance on a DRG), and then make a judgement. However, I know that a lot of people don't dig deeper but take the number at face value.

As for the thread, it told both sides because of the log. If no one had the log to reference, we have just the OP's side, which blames the WAR for his supposed elitism, but mentions nothing about how the WAR was only being outDPS'd by a NIN who died once, and not a SAM, RDM, or MCH that also only died once (well, SAM died twice). It opens up for more discussion, because clearly there is room for improvement on the part of all three of those DPS. With no log, we only have that accursed WAR and their parser elitism.

But these are just my opinions.

[Fhaerron]

This is exactly WHY this game needs a parser (officially supported one).

There's no (officially supported) one right now and you have this shit, nothing will change when one will be added as the bad is already happening now.

Make use of your blacklist, you have it for something.

I shouldn't be penalized because you don't know how to use blacklist or other people like to leech in raids, A parser is a great measurement tool and will help me great way in order to keep improving myself.

[Rikuide]

This is exactly WHY this game needs a parser (officially supported one).

There's no (officially supported) one right now and you have this shit, nothing will change when one will be added as the bad is already happening now.

Make use of your blacklist, you have it for something.

I shouldn't be penalized because you don't know how to use blacklist or other people like to leech in raids, A parser is a great measurement tool and will help me great way in order to keep improving myself.

This is SE we're talking about. Their solution to toxic players in PvP was to remove the chat function. They're more likely to remove DPS checks and have us run around like the second boss in Bardam's Mettle than introduce a parser.

[KaivaC]

This is SE we're talking about. Their solution to toxic players in PvP was to remove the chat function. They're more likely to remove DPS checks and have us run around like the second boss in Bardam's Mettle than introduce a parser.

To be fair, that boss brought in some mechanics that players, even jump potion users, should know by now and they still fail it. We can discuss parses and whatnot all we want, but there are still players who think that getting a stack marker means run away with a full party alive.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

To be fair, that boss brought in some mechanics that players, even jump potion users, should know by now and they still fail it. We can discuss parses and whatnot all we want, but there are still players who think that getting a stack marker means run away with a full party alive.

To which I say, why wasn't this in a new Hall of the Novice? I've noticed an increasing trend with SB dungeons. They keep adding gimmicks to one of the bosses, which get tedious very quickly, especially if you play jobs with a resource you have to maintain and said gimmick messes it up.