What is the point of TP by now?

[Shurrikhan]

@shurrikhan

Have you considered the option that weaponskills simply wont cost anything and that MP usage would largely stay the same for things like Foe Requiem, Holy Spirit windows and so on? It would break current PLD if weaponskills would cost MP and I dont think there is a smart option for a physical-magical hybrid going 5.0.

RDM weapon (unenchanted) are generally awful compared to even Jolt I + Verspell enders. Even Moulinet would be a waste with 80 potency when Scatter has 110. So TP cost never really limited weaponskills on RDM; balance gauge did.

PLD TP costs on any of the comboskills does jack, it only limits Total Eclipse in long aoe pulls and Shield Lob + bash. Lob would simply be cost-free, bash be made ogcd. Total Eclipse is kinda meh and apart from subpar dungeonpulls it isnt worth the hassle to put it on MP to limit it only to rework the mp economy around riot blade and sheltron.

All that aside I think getting rid of costs on weaponskills gets rid of punishment for skillspeed builds or generally fast gcd jobs like samurai and monk, which is good imo.

I have considered that option, too.

To be clear, though, I do not think weaponskills spending from the consolidated stat would "break" PLD, or DRK or RDM for that matter. The costs can be made TP-neutral, meaning that the only difference to, say, PLD's MP-regeneration period would be that Riot Blade would need do a bit more of the work, or that Requiescat itself would have to be slightly adjusted. It could, for instance, change instead to a skill which grants MP based on current (e.g. 25% of current) before granting its buff regardless of mana level, while granting its buff regardless of current MP. For a full Req window, one would still need the same number of Riot Blade casts, changing nothing to gameplay, though the phase would begin at 80% MP, up from 100% (again, just a difference in on-screen numbers, not to decisions or gameplay). A DRK, unless DA cost and Maximum MP are both reduced, would have slightly fewer DA casts per minute in this fashion, but DA potency has only been lowered as far as it has because of its increased rate. When rate is decreased, potency can and must simply increase in compensation. At worst, this would simply add more burst synergy/multiplicity to DRK where it previously had the least among the tanks. RDM could still have costs attached to Riposte, Zwerchau, and Redoublement -- they'd just have to be in line with the relative cost of weaponskills to TP classes or any of their basic spells to their overall mana pool. Make them each cost what Jolt costs, for instance. And when Enchanted, perhaps then you could make them cost absolutely nothing, as a bonus; the mana cost was already spent in the process of enchanting those skills. Same for Moulinet and Enchanted Moulinet. Match it to Scatter or the (now much reduced) relative cost of AoE weaponskills initially and then make it free when Enchanted.

Though I've considered both systems, I prefer weaponskill spending over neglected/omitted spending so long as other jobs still spend resource for the basic use of their weaponskills. Though PLD made virtually no rotational use of MP prior to Heavensward outside of AoE pulls, using Flash only as a filler, Flash still consumed MP. Even on a WAR, Flash consumed MP, and at the exact same cost. I like that consistency. If a Monk must pay to True Strike, a Paladin should -- on the surface -- pay to Flash or Savage Blade; they just shouldn't pay for it in any practical or throughput-limiting sense, which are costs each easy enough to avoid.

Again, I'd prefer to remove TP/MP costs from all basic weaponskills and spells, using the additional cost as a sort of Stamina Bar for emergency or capitalizing increased output, more similar to how Dark Arts functions now or to how TP functions in PvP. But as long as weaponskills cost something, let them all cost something. I believe that consistency is worth the minor rebalancing of costs/regains it would require.

PLD TP costs on any of the comboskills does jack, it only limits Total Eclipse in long aoe pulls and Shield Lob + bash. Lob would simply be cost-free, bash be made ogcd. Total Eclipse is kinda meh and apart from subpar dungeonpulls it isnt worth the hassle to put it on MP to limit it only to rework the mp economy around riot blade and sheltron.

Let's touch briefly here on AoE, ranged, and utility resource spending (as per Bash and Lob).

I think physical classes should be held to no more or less additional throughput cost for AoEing than casters are. It's as simple as that. I'd prefer that every skill which looks like an AoE be an AoE, and the current AoEs be given at least situational use in ST. Short of that, I'd at least like RDM's physical options to be, in themselves, damage-even with spellcasting (though the lack of W/B mana generation will put it behind later). But if only the simplest solution is permitted, then let there at least be balance.

Likewise, no caster would ever pay unreasonably for ranged skills; casters may pay for mobility in terms of potency, as with unenchanted RDM melee skills or BLM's Scathe, or very, very little in MP as per Ruin II, but never both. Melee ranged skills, therefore, should either have reduced costs (if this alone, normal costs), or reduced potency loss (such as through combo integration and reduced cost when less charged).

I do not, however, believe that Bash should be free or made oGCD. It is valuable, but expensive, utility and is better off for its differences in that regard. That it might cost a Holy Spirit under Requiescat if unable to provide a single safety margin use of Riot Blade is fine to me.

All that aside I think getting rid of costs on weaponskills gets rid of punishment for skillspeed builds or generally fast gcd jobs like samurai and monk, which is good imo.

If you get rid of it for everyone, leaving the bar completely absent of use, so be it. But I do not wish to get rid of it for some and leave it for some others; I'd rather finagle what I can in the background to use the same standard costs without affecting any loss to gameplay or throughput.

That being said, the punishment for Skill Speed builds and faster GCD jobs can be solved far, far more simply than any systematic change to costs: just have TP/MP tick per GCD, and get rid of the need for Invigorate and Lucid Dreaming, and make Goad and Refresh increase the tick value instead of using a separate tick. Voila, now high-SkS and -SpS builds are equally efficient as low-speed ones.