What is the point of TP by now?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

While I admire your thoughts on the matter, this all seems unnecessary extra reworks if the easiest solution would be to baseline remove TP costs from weaponskills instead of all the various resource reworks.

I also disagree on the sentiment of Bash utility, given Low Blow is a cross role ability available six levels prior to shield bash for only one second less duration but realistically more gcd uptime. If your fear would be PLD having two stuns at ogcd being too good, I'd either:

1.) Put Low Blow (current) back on DRK, making Bash equal to LBlow and readding brutal swing with same stats on WAR
2.) Keep Lowblow in reworked 5.0 crossrole system.

But yes, I am indeed talking about baseline removal of costs for weaponskills on all jobs that currently use TP for them - at very least singletarget if I am forced to compromise.

EDIT:
Keep in mind that melees pay for ranged weaponskills with them breaking combos unlike ranged dps that dont have a fixed combo gameplay as their primary way of fighting (yet). Ideal rotations exist obviously, but they are more flexible in when to use what.

[Shurrikhan]

But yes, I am indeed talking about baseline removal of costs for weaponskills on all jobs that currently use TP for them - at very least singletarget if I am forced to compromise.

That changes things greatly then. With what would you replace TP costs, seeing all but two of those jobs have no MP costs either?

Keep in mind that melees pay for ranged weaponskills with them breaking combos unlike ranged dps that don't have a fixed combo gameplay as their primary way of fighting (yet). Ideal rotations exist obviously, but they are more flexible in when to use what.

That's why I mentioned either or both of combo integration and increased potency or zero additional cost being necessary.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Need more uses for TP to justify Goad, Invigorate, and Tactician on Role Action...

[Rollout]

I'm in the camp where I think they're just going to remove the cost from weaponskills. It just sounds silly for any sort of physical ability to cost magic points. Plus, in the case of big pulls, melee and physical ranged users are at a disadvantage for AoEing compared to casters. Most of the casters have some form of low-cost AoE, whether it be an AoE DoT or just a low-cost ability, and the ability to very rapidly restore MP while still expending it. Invigorate restores only 400TP, which will be gone in three attacks, Tactician is on a long cooldown and doesn't seem to be as strong as Refresh, and Goad is unreliable because you have to have someone else cast it on you.

Plus, TP costs just discourages the use of Skill Speed in most cases and consolidating the resource into MP will just result in the same thing. I wanna see us going into the expansion and maybe going Crit > SkS > DH > Det or Crit > DH > SkS > Det.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm in the camp where I think they're just going to remove the cost from weaponskills. It just sounds silly for any sort of physical ability to cost magic points. Plus, in the case of big pulls, melee and physical ranged users are at a disadvantage for AoEing compared to casters. Most of the casters have some form of low-cost AoE, whether it be an AoE DoT or just a low-cost ability, and the ability to very rapidly restore MP while still expending it. Invigorate restores only 400TP, which will be gone in three attacks, Tactician is on a long cooldown and doesn't seem to be as strong as Refresh, and Goad is unreliable because you have to have someone else cast it on you.

Plus, TP costs just discourages the use of Skill Speed in most cases and consolidating the resource into MP will just result in the same thing. I wanna see us going into the expansion and maybe going Crit > SkS > DH > Det or Crit > DH > SkS > Det.

Could anyone supply the exact quotes on the later updated info on TP removal? When last I saw the exact quotes, during the keynotes, it sounded like TP was being removed in the sense of being consolidated with MP, meaning that we'd see one resource, just MP or just TP, or just some new single resource (SP?), and anything that made TP consumption significantly different from MP consumption were being removed/normalized (such as greatly more expensive AoE/ranged costs).

If it really does turn into just MP, then I'm right with you guys -- it makes no sense for purely physical attacks to consume MP. But I wonder, will it then just be another dead resource on physical classes so that the next step is to give us only HP, or will there be new MP interactions a la the stronger but more limited (due to significant drain cost) Monk elemental fists in 1.x?

[Rollout]

Could anyone supply the exact quotes on the later updated info on TP removal? When last I saw the exact quotes, during the keynotes, it sounded like TP was being removed in the sense of being consolidated with MP, meaning that we'd see one resource, just MP or just TP, or just some new single resource (SP?), and anything that made TP consumption significantly different from MP consumption were being removed/normalized (such as greatly more expensive AoE/ranged costs).

If it really does turn into just MP, then I'm right with you guys -- it makes no sense for purely physical attacks to consume MP. But I wonder, will it then just be another dead resource on physical classes so that the next step is to give us only HP, or will there be new MP interactions a la the stronger but more limited (due to significant drain cost) Monk elemental fists in 1.x?

Most people assume that consolidating the two resources together would make them just MP, because MP is a far bigger staple to Final Fantasy than anything else. I highly doubt they'll change it to something like SP. Yoshida is somewhat adamant on keeping classic/staple FF skills in the game. It's why we still have Protect, despite the fact that it's very dumb to have it, because all the fights get balanced around it.

[Sandpark]

.
If it really does turn into just MP, then I'm right with you guys -- it makes no sense for purely physical attacks to consume MP. But I wonder, will it then just be another dead resource on physical classes so that the next step is to give us only HP, or will there be new MP interactions a la the stronger but more limited (due to significant drain cost) Monk elemental fists in 1.x?

Here you go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

Merging TP and MP in 5.0

It's more about "removing TP", rather than merging TP with MP.

Invigorate and tactician will be removed.

They are going to have a huge revamp for role actions as well, so there might be parts that feel totally different.

They don't want to add more actions (note: The context here is, they don't want to fill up the hotbars), so there will move actions that are removed or merged with other actions.

They've also already decided the direction they are going with "resistance down" type of actions.

TP and MP conversation from the interview:

Famitsu writer: You said you're merging MP and TP, but it feels like quite a drastic decision. Can you please tell us why?

Yoshida: To simply put it, melee jobs aren't fighting caring about their TP anymore. The only time they do care is, after they are revived and the dev team is balancing the game around that, meaning that TP is no longer a part of the strategy. However with MP, if a healer continues to randomly cast spells, they will run out of MP. If you add raise to the menu, it makes it worse. Players manage their MP with lucid dreaming and actions like mana shift to support them. TP and MP have gone down 2 different paths.

MP has a reason to exist because managing your MP is a part of skill, but TP has totally lost that purpose. Now that sprint doesn't use TP, the TP bar is just floating there because it feels like it. You rarely run out and new players won't understand why it even exists.

Famitsu writer: Maybe.

Yoshida: Even though it has lost most of its purpose, it's still in your face and it just adds something that new players wonder what it's for and also makes the UI complicated. If that's the case, we simply thought it was better to merge it with MP.

We wanted to make resource management as simple as possible. Because you need to keep track of DoTs, GCDs and timers on abilities while fighting, we thought it was necessary to make the base system simple and instead, have each of the jobs be more different from each other. This direction was important when we were making new actions and we thought "we don't need tp anymore".

I am not completely sure but it seems TP on the whole is getting removed and not replaced with a different global resource. No more Invigorate, Goad, or Tactician. Sounds like each job will be getting it's own resource or non caster skills not costing any resource.Will Monk skills cost Lightning gauge? Chakras? Or a new resource? Will most common skills not cost a resource at all? Will Purification get the axe or will it replenish a new or different resource?

Resistance down actions have been decided on. Is that complete removal? Are they being baked into GCD combos? Perhaps they are added to traits active when under the effect of Greased Lightning 1,2,3 and are cumulative per stack? It is true, I never run into TP issues unless I just died or we are spamming AOE for far too long killing too many monsters at one time than we should be due to them hitting like gnats.

[Shurrikhan]

Here you go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

I am not completely sure but it seems TP on the whole is getting removed and not replaced with a different global resource. No more Invigorate, Goad, or Tactician. Sounds like each job will be getting it's own resource or non caster skills not costing any resource.Will Monk skills cost Lightning gauge? Chakras? Or a new resource? Will most common skills not cost a resource at all? Will Purification get the axe or will it replenish a new or different resource?

Resistance down actions have been decided on. Is that complete removal? Are they being baked into GCD combos? Perhaps they are added to traits active when under the effect of Greased Lightning 1,2,3 and are cumulative per stack? It is true, I never run into TP issues unless I just died or we are spamming AOE for far too long killing too many monsters at one time than we should be due to them hitting like gnats.

Hmm, it's hard to say from this if we'll be going from two dead resources to one or if the surviving resource will be an actual mechanic to work with and around. I certainly hope it'll be the second, so that melee (outside of PLD & DRK) aren't essentially just left with HP bars, but I'm seeing no reason to believe that from what we've seen here or in the original keynotes.

[Sylvain]

From what i uneerstand TP will be remived and everyone will have mp. Now wether or not there will be actual mp management from melee ( like pld and drk) is a different story.

Perhaps (for melee) it will be used to fuel some situational skill / cross eole actions such as second wind.

[AnimaAnimus]

It just sounds silly for any sort of physical ability to cost magic points.

Could easily see them justify it by doing this...
"To execute skills you must draw upon your personal aether, represented by MP."

But it still would be silly unless they are tied to more specific sets of moves. Normal punches, sword swings or pew pews shouldn't cost aether. Otherwise anything that is exerting, even walking or running like we do as default, should technically cost aether too. Personally I think this would work better if we had the XI system or building up TP to use for specific moves. Would certainly make combat more interesting and tactical.