A Skipping Normal Raid Option :o ?!

[JunseiKei]

I really don't see much of a point to normal raid. People complained about coil's story being locked behind, well, coil. Most people I asked said they just looked at the videos on YouTube and people that did coil wanted the clears for achievements or because they were raiders. I often sit on the fence of "this is a waste of resources" (especially with how bad you can be and still clear, it really teaches nothing, and those that are truly terrible, well, vote abandon is a favorite) and "this is a good stepping stone for playing catch up." I know the approach between east and west are stark and that undoubtedly plays a role into why it's split (even though JP has much better clear rates on most of their servers compared to west's best server, Balmung). I just really wish they weren't, personally. Instead of skipping normal, I'd rather it be reverted back to the coil days: a single raid tier. Especially with unsyncing, non-raiders will eventually get the story anyway, if they haven't watched it from their favorite streamers or video platforms.

[Commander_Justitia]

2) To act as a gateway lock of Savage content for the player to decide if they are indeed capable of Savage content.

Ye after 3 or more years for some players of having cleared every content of the game, they need to test my skill again in a dumbed down normal mode?pls..
In the old days during coil you had the option to play normal or savage, while getting the same rewards, it unlocked all together. I don't want the same rewards now, but they could have kept that way for unlock. There was no test.

[Zojha]

so you'd be OK with random people who haven't even passed normal joining in on the savage runs?

Yes, because Normal is too easy to see whether people are qualified for Savage anyway - So far, the NM fights weren't noticeably more difficult than Shinryu normal and everyone had to go through that somehow. Considering all the "Farm party - No bonus" horror stories, even having cleared the content in question already isn't a great indicator of competency.

If you want some basic competency check, you should start demanding people be able to clear the SSS dummy for the respective content. That at least ensures people know their rotation in theory, even if the application in the content might leave things to be desired. Clearing normal doesn't even do that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Does it even matter? Normal is a complete joke you can roll over in thirty minutes. It's a shame since they should be using it to help prepare players for Savage but it just sets up false expectations. With crafted gear, normal mode has almost no relevancy anymore.

[Krotoan]

Yes, because Normal is too easy to see whether people are qualified for Savage anyway - So far, the NM fights weren't noticeably more difficult than Shinryu normal and everyone had to go through that somehow. Considering all the "Farm party - No bonus" horror stories, even having cleared the content in question already isn't a great indicator of competency.

If you want some basic competency check, you should start demanding people be able to clear the SSS dummy for the respective content. That at least ensures people know their rotation in theory, even if the application in the content might leave things to be desired. Clearing normal doesn't even do that.

let me rephrase: you'd be OK with someone who possibly can't even clear normal being in your party for a savage clear?

It's not about being able to clear savage,it's proving a basic competency in clearing mechanics.
If you're still ok with that.. sure. I've nothing against letting people try what they want, but I'm assuming from the amount of people in the forum that complain about people being "carried" and failing savage runs , that the complaints would increase to "omg why are they letting noobs into savage with no filter". It's not MUCH of a filter, but it's there. I'm suggesting that it's a gateway that was easy to implement and is there for actual "hardcore" players benefit.



all that being said, what's one run in normal to a hardcore hardmode loving raider?

[Tridus]

This one run will spoiler me my savage experience almost entirely, that is my problem.

If doing it on normal entirely spoils your savage experience, than this is a PEBCK issue.

[Canadane]

The normal/hard modes are the events as they are.
The extreme/savage fights are just tall tales spreading your word.

They both have a place lore-wise.

[PharisHanasaki]

We all know the reason this is a bad idea is because people who don't belong in savage will attempt it, then complain about how everything is so hard and should be nerfed.

And we would have to deal with them

[Ameela]

I don't get this "NM is there so that you don't get scrubs in Savage" talk.
O1S and O2S are barely harder than O4N, and then there's a massive difficulty spike from O2 to O3 so even if you manage to clear THOSE fights that won't mean you're ready for the rest of Savage.
Plus you have fights like Shinryu EX which is also harder than O1S and O2S yet it requires neither the completion of those fights OR the completion of Deltascape normal mode...

I persoally agree with Commander Justitia, O3S would've been a much cooler experience if I hadn't already gone through a dumbed down version of the fight which spoiled me on half of the mechanics, which is why I actually really enjoy O4S (once you get past Exfaust anyway).

[PharisHanasaki]

I don't get this "NM is there so that you don't get scrubs in Savage" talk.
O1S and O2S are barely harder than O4N, and then there's a massive difficulty spike from O2 to O3 so even if you manage to clear THOSE fights that won't mean you're ready for the rest of Savage.
Plus you have fights like Shinryu EX which is also harder than O1S and O2S yet it requires neither the completion of those fights OR the completion of Deltascape normal mode...

I persoally agree with Commander Justitia, O3S would've been a much cooler experience if I hadn't already gone through a dumbed down version of the fight which spoiled me on half of the mechanics, which is why I actually really enjoy O4S (once you get past Exfaust anyway).

Remember the people who complained about Shinryu NM being 'savage content for hardcore players'?