Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    GrumbleBeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Severa Nanase
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90

    No real value in killing players in RW

    I find it a little strange that killing players in a pvp mode doesn't do anything aside from possibly inconveniencing them (or not, if they were planning on going back to base anyway) and giving you a soaring stack.
    What if killing a player while on foot would steal a portion of that players' party's ceruleum?
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    ThirdChild_ZKI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,229
    Character
    Lace Valeria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Aside from working the push/pull of Soaring buffs, there really is no benefit to a player KO, nor a penalty for being KOed besides losing Soaring stacks.

    I was in an Oppressor firing the last shot on the enemy's north tower once while a single BRD was just going to town on me. Soon as the missile was out, I ejected, sat down, and let them take me out, purely for the faster way back (and partially to say "everything you just did doesn't matter, I got your tower anyways").

    Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction SE wants to take PvP in, especially when they get rid of the one Frontline mode that was effectively Team Deathmatch. I've got no problem with objective-based PvP, but rendering defeating other players pointless kinda makes the whole concept of player vs player kinda pointless, no?
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    GrumbleBeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Severa Nanase
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    I agree completely and have had my share of similar experiences. I really think it would be interesting to see a mechanic where killing a player takes a portion of that persons ceruleum or something, anything, to make killing someone worthwhile.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Zojha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,565
    Character
    Lodestone Bait
    World
    Pandaemonium
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI View Post
    I've got no problem with objective-based PvP, but rendering defeating other players pointless kinda makes the whole concept of player vs player kinda pointless, no?
    Implying that the point of PvP is to defeat other players. We have a dedicated role whose entire point and purpose is to prevent the defeat of players and thus go against that very point. And it does it exceedingly well. Does SE have to make themselves any clearer on what they think of the point of PvP?

    Truth be told, Soaring is already more than some other objective based modes offer. If you boot up a shooter and play some capture the flag, you'll usually get nothing for killing players at all, killing players is merely a means to get the objective done, to pave the way for your flag carrier, get your flag back or kill the enemy carrier so yours can score. It's looking similar in King of the Hill, where kills outside the hill usually don't matter, and even though I haven't played WoW in a while, their battlegrounds used to not have a big emphasis on kills either. The main benefit of killing people in objective based PvP generally is that you can actually claim the objective (for a while) and score some points through that.

    And Rival Wings isn't too bad in that regard. Mammets, mid and CE tanks are all worth contesting and even the mechs, i.e. the prize for winning the objectives can be fought on foot to some degree. There is ample point in fighting other players in most places of the map, whether on foot or especially inside mechs. The main issue is just that contesting objectives tends to be a pretty meh experience overall and sometimes downright impossible for no reason other than job "balance".
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    GrumbleBeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Severa Nanase
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Implying that the point of PvP is to defeat other players.
    It is.
    We have a dedicated role whose entire point and purpose is to prevent the defeat of players and thus go against that very point. And it does it exceedingly well.
    In previous modes kills awarded points and took points away from the enemy team. Healers being a little too strong after the large 4.0 change doesn't invalidate kills.
    you'll usually get nothing for killing players at all
    CoD gives kill streaks, even in objective modes. Overwatch gives points towards your ult. Regardless, this game isn't a shooter and it's not really relevant.

    I don't disagree that RW is kind of ok in terms of objectives to do on foot, but nearly all of them are best done while stacking as many healers as possible because there is little reason to be anything else right now.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    408
    Character
    Pa Lin'guine
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 60
    I want the opposite. It's very easy to get high kills with chasers, it should give us their cereleum. Sort of balancing the healer mammet push if they don't want to nerf it. If person drops cereleum then we're basically replacing mammets, the balance will be thrown off even further.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,471
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    In Shatter and Seize, when you kill other players, you gain five points from them and they lose five points from their team. They moved away from this, mostly I believe because it didn't actually work for good gameplay. It wound up further penalizing the last place team and benefitting the first overall, rather than give a good back and forth. It got to the point where players often farmed the last place team in between objectives because of points, or even in the case of seal rock spawn camped them. The only reason it didn't end up in the same as Feast was that the medal mechanics made farming less efficient over time and provided a huge catchup mechanic at the end of the match.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Wintersandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,190
    Character
    Winter Sandman
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    In Shatter and Seize, when you kill other players, you gain five points from them and they lose five points from their team.
    Or if you were good you could make a comeback from last place. I have overcome a 500 point deficit in Shatter and a 200 point deficit in Seize without spawn camping.

    Kills should mean something because it rewards the players who actually know how to PvP. Just like memorizing a pattern rewards you in PvE.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,471
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    If you were good you weren't in last place to start with. In practice, kills and battle highs just made the best team win even harder, and be more difficult to gain against.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Wintersandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,190
    Character
    Winter Sandman
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    If you were good you weren't in last place to start with. In practice, kills and battle highs just made the best team win even harder, and be more difficult to gain against.
    You really haven't pvp'ed much. Gracidea Shaymin (someone you should know from primal if you really did PvP) was notorious for her group focusing on kills and neglecting ice. Which often put them in last place at the start since ice would go to 1 of the other 2 teams. Slowly but surely as they would be building up highs/fevers they would steam roll the rest of the teams. Then once that happened ice became irrelevant as they would just steamroll the other 3 teams.
    (1)

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread