Black Mage: Rework/Buff for Thunder- Thundersting

[Llugen]

Hi again. This is the last thread I'm going to make on BLM, I promise. Probably. Please like/comment/critique and bring your friends in to do the same!




To the esteemed developers of FFXIV:


As we are all well aware, BLM could use more damage. Ever since 2.0, Thundercloud has felt great but has underperformed; in 2.x it was used mostly to "fireweave" a firestarter (since remember in those days the firestarter procs happened super late?), in 3.0 launch it was not only a marginal gain over Fire IV but the timer didn't allow for its usage outside of Umbral Ice (since back then the timers were only 10 seconds each), and after it was changed to 10% and increased potency, it STILL felt less satisfying than it should, knowing that your Astral Timer might suffer. At 4.0 launch, it felt amazing to use it with Thunder IV in large mobs, and quite frankly it still does, so bravo. But consider the following:

Lv. 45 (Spell) Thunder III: Damage over time Duration 30s, otherwise same as current spell.

Lv. 45 (Trait) Thundersting: The remaining DoT tick potency from the same Thunder DoT on a target is applied to the initial potency of the next Thundercloud. Refreshes Astral Fire/Umbral Ice.


In case this verbiage is confusing, if there are 10 seconds of Thunder III remaining on a target when Thundercloud hits, the Thundercloud gains initial potency of 120 (40 potency per tick * 10/3 seconds(so three ticks)). This would mean that the initial potency of a Thunder III Thundercloud would be 470 (870 total, whereas currently it is 390 initial/710 total, all without enochian), and if it was applied at 27 seconds remaining on a previous Thunder III (Sharpcast Thunder III > Thundercloud), the initial potency of the resulting Thundercloud would be 830 (1230 potency total, assuming that the first DoT tick could never be factored in).


Let me break this down: Before, if a Black Mage got back-to-back Thunderclouds, a significant amount of DoT potency was wasted (half, even), and this always felt saddening; there was a crapshoot with waiting as long as you can on a Thundercloud proc while praying that you don't get another one (that is then wasted) until you use it at the last second. With this proposed adjustment to Thundercloud, no DoT ticks of Thunder would ever be wasted, increasing the value of Sharpcast + Thunder III/IV significantly, and allowing it to refresh Astral Fire/Umbral Ice would take a lot of ease off the mind of the BLM trying to use it for the timer's sake. Furthermore, the increased DoT duration would help significantly with Thunder III falling off mid-Astral Fire phase with no hope of refreshing it until Umbral Ice. Lastly, this would provide a significant amount more "burst" damage to be used inside buffs like Trick Attack, Foe Requiem and Contagion, not to mention AoE damage. Currently, BLM hits hard but it doesn't feel like it hits REALLY hard anymore (even Foul could use some love), and this would help solve that as well.



On top of this, as a side note, please increase the proc time of all BLM procs to 30 seconds to match the other caster classes. Thank you in advance.


Thank you for reading and considering!

[Remedi]

TBF I'd rather have thundersting be applied to dots in general that to just BLM since other jobs are affected by dots clipping in some way or the others
And that's how it works on wow too

[Eloah]

Honestly, I feel Thundercloud as a trait is fine. I find I get more procs then I can use sometimes. The only "change" I'd like is for the proc duration to be a bit longer.

[Llugen]

So, there are two things about Thundercloud that really suck that this proposal would fix:


1. Getting a proc while you're already holding a proc, so it's wasted.
2. Getting a proc super early on a DoT, so you waste half the ticks of Thunder that are already on the target.


On top of fixing both of these, with the increase of the timer, you could hold the proc if you really needed it for movement's sake, or if you know buffs are coming up momentarily, etc. Thundercloud has always felt underwhelming because of these two and it has such potential.

[LeeraSorlan]

out of all the changes for BLM ive been reading here, this is one i feel like i could get behind, its not so drastic as to change the rotation to any large degree (this is the thing i do not want, i love BLM in its current state) and its part of something ive been wanting (longer proc duration).

I really feel like, out of everything, minor potency increases and some random QoL things (like your suggestion here) is all BLM really needs. i play and love the job because its simple to perform but at the same time hard to master and plan around mobility, removing mobility and making the rotation more convoluted then it needs to be would make me quit this job in all honesty

[Kabooa]

I'll be honest. I don't like this.

This isn't compelling. It doesn't add to Black Mage's priority system, it overtakes it. TCloud is suddenly your most valuable tool and it's not something you plan around. It's something you RNG into, and beyond dropping timers (It doesn't, but I get into this further down), it is the only button you should care about when it lights up.'

This isn't a minor QoL, it is a significant buff.

TCloud is currently 710 potency for 390 + 320 DoT. Because of Black mage's burn build phases, TCloud's value is constantly fluctuating, based on the Thunder's DoT, based on your other spells, based on your timers. A fair amount of factors goes into making every TCloud count, and even having TCloud proc twice within a duration isn't terribly punishing or terribly influential as a reward. It's always nice, but the loss and gains are enough to feel like a bonus or easily acceptable loss should other priorities take first place.

This change doesn't do that. You always get the full value of TCloud because the current Thunder DoT doesn't play against it. It means every time TCloud pops up, you immediately hit it. IT doesn't matter if it pops twice in a row, you hit it. You might even hit it to the detriment of your AF/UI timers. You would interrupt your Fire phase for Tcloud via Transpose if you had to. It's no longer a bonus, something to consider when it does pop up and how you can best utilize. You hit it, because if it procs again, you -just lost 710 potency-. You just lost a Foul +1.

You hit it. It takes every bit of thought away from this proc, and that is unacceptable, as unacceptable as TCloud being something you receive when any Thunder DoT runs its course completely.

This is -completely ignoring the fact that it would also refresh timers-.

Once you add the fact that it refreshes timers, it gets even worse. It's now not only your best priority choice, it's also a gain of Fire 4 should it happen in AF. A free 2400 MP that doesn't have to be spent on Fire 1 to upkeep. So now not only is your best, no comparison damaging tool RNG locked, it also -enables you further-. The swing between good damage and great damage is no longer under your control. We go back to the feast or famine days of 2.0.

No thank you.

[LeeraSorlan]

snip

i always read into these ideas and designs without potency into consideration, far too many times the playerbase will just try to make something so ridiculously overpowered thats its not even a fair discussion anymore. but the idea itself is appreciated.

So in this instance, his ideas would be proposed, but there would be a balance to it, it wouldnt just be straight up insane dmg like he would want. or at least thats how i like to read into it. his idea is what i like, excluding potency issues

Edit- just read in his post that he also wants it refreshing ice/fire stances. This is something i disagree with heavily. as much as it feels underwhelming to use fire 1, its at least another button to push.

Without potency consideration, the only thing id like are as such


-- 30 second proc timers


-- using thunder 3 proc will add on to the existing timer of your current thunder 3 (max of 60 seconds).
so it wont feel as bad to use that thunder 3 proc you just got whenever your thunder 3 buff is at 20 seconds, and so on.

[Llugen]

Using Fire I at level 70 feels so wrong. This is why I made the other thread about Firestorm, feel free to read that one as well.

And the whole point is that you get the full potency of each Thunder. Note how currently BLM needs damage, well, here's damage for you.

Besides, perhaps it doesn't have to refresh astral, but Thundercloud is underwhelming, as you yourself admit, so if we're looking for more damage in the form of potency, it's right here in front of our noses.