Thread: Ideas to Improve The Black Mage (for 4.2 and beyond!)

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

If you start with T3, it won't be buffed by enochian's 10% damage. You shouldn't have any chance at losing it anyway.

Fair enough, I suppose. It wouldn't hurt trying that next time.

Refer to this, kinda (still needs some edits, as he says in the guide):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing


I really like reading suggestions of all kinds, even if I don't like the suggestions themselves. Even ideas that are not as strong/less convincing can spark new ideas which can lead to tweaks, or stronger/more convincing ones. Worst case scenario, a suggestion is ignored completely and not even read. Outside of this, even if a suggestion is read, considered, and then not implemented, it can lead to other ideas that may later become implemented. It's all a process; this is how brainstorming works!~

As such, I've been systematically posting the reworks that I've thought the hardest about as OPs so they can get more attention. Not sure if the developers are making it to page 104 of Sfia's thread....


What I do not like is people shooting down suggestions as knee-jerk reactions without considering a larger picture (hence why we are at each others' throats in the Raise thread) and offering either no critique or very weak critique. There was a thread a while back suggesting Meltdown for BLM, giving +1% damage increase to a target for every Fire IV that hit it (with a cap of 6%, for if there were multiple BLMs in the group, etc), resetting back to 0 when the target was hit with an ice spell. That thread got so much heat (pun definitely intended) that the guy ended up deleting it (or so I presume, as I can no longer find it in search). RIP.

Background Changes

• Buffs no longer prevent the acquisition of durational buffs they would nullify (e.g. Astral Fire or Darkside preventing Ewer or Refresh). Rather, they simply nullify the individual ticks from those effects. Additionally, the latest tick is banked and will be immediately received upon removal of the nullifying effect (thus UI and/or mana ticks now always instantly grant mana upon shifting out of AF).
  
  
• Animation Lock of certain rate-increasing or preparatory abilities decreased slightly, including Swiftcast, Sharpcast, Presence of Mind, Lightspeed, Emergency Tactics, and Thin Air, and of warding abilities on casters such as Manaward and Surecast.

BLM

• By default, Enochian, Fire IV, and Blizzard IV are combined into a single key (separable options still available). Fire IV and Blizzard IV may be queued sequentially, before the swap is made.
  
  
• By default, Ley Lines and Between the Lines are combined into a single key, swapping after Ley Line's animation has completed (roughly 1 second). Between the Lines cannot be queued until the swap has been made. This is to prevent accidental doubling.
  
  
• Astral Fire and Umbral Ice returned to a 12-second duration, but Enochian now has a hidden timer of 2 seconds from after the loss of AF/UI before it actually fades. This acts as an effective increase of one second's duration that essentially benefits only the use of quick-casting over the period at which Enochian would otherwise fade, reallowing its Heavensward style rotations.
  
  
• (See background changes.) UI/MP ticks now granted instantly upon shifting out of AF.
  
  
• Transpose recast time reduced to 10 seconds.
  
  
• Manaward recast time reduced to 90 seconds.
  
  
• Advantages/disadvantages of Astral Fire and Umbral Ice made consistent per stack. Astral Fire and Umbral Ice now decrease the cast times of the opposite element by 20% per stack, rather than 50% only at 3 stacks. Each stack of Astral Fire now decreases the mana costs of Ice spells, and each stack of Umbral Ice of Fire spells, by 20%. Their penalty on the opposite element is now standardized at 5% per stack, rather than 10/15/20%. (edit)
  
  
• The damage bonus to Fire spells of Astral Fire has been decreased to 20% per stack, to a maximum of 60% (previously 40/60/80). ALL elemental spell potencies have been increased by ~20% to compensate. (This results in roughly identical Fire damage, and significantly increased Ice damage.) This allows for greater symmetry (numeric symmetry, not effective symmetry), a less punishing ice phase, and slightly improves upon the value of Umbral Heart rotations.
  
  Actual potencies:

• Fire - 220 potency. [+4]
• Fire II - 110 potency. [+14]
• Fire III - 290 potency. [+2]
• Fire IV - 310 potency. [-2]
• Flare - 310 potency. [-2] Now diminishes at 15/30/45/60%... damage over targets, or a minimum of 198 relative potency, up from 140.
• Blizzard I - 220 potency. [+40] [+22%]
• Blizzard II - 80 potency. [+30] [+60%]
• Blizzard III - 290 potency. [+50] [+21%]
• Blizzard IV - 310 potency. [+50] [+19%]
• Freeze - 160 potency. [+60] [+60%] This still generates damage just 16 short of Fire II spam, or 40 short of the minimum damage of the here-revised Flare, or 20 potency more than the minimum damage of current Flare.

I hate to say it, Shurrikhan, but you basically made Black Mage a braindead job. There's no need for symmetry between Astral Fire and Umbral Ice, because the Umbral Ice phase is supposed to be a cooldown phase/be in this phase while you wait to actually burn things again phase.

Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

I hate to say it, Shurrikhan, but you basically made Black Mage a braindead job. There's no need for symmetry between Astral Fire and Umbral Ice, because the Umbral Ice phase is supposed to be a cooldown phase/be in this phase while you wait to actually burn things again phase.

They're still 60% off in potency... Any single-target Ice spell remains barely over half the damage of its related Fire spell... They just happen to now show the same potency values, while Ice AoE has been made less of a cruel joke.

While such might make an "Ice Mage" less painful to his party, it would change nothing in optimal play, except that Flare now remains ahead of Fire II even at 8+ targets, and Freeze and Blizzard are now situationally viable choices within AoE rotations, rather than solely Blizzard IV and Thunder IV.

Apart from no longer having to pay attention to when your ultra nuke spell is actually less powerful than your AoE filler, that would be a complexity increase.

The changes are meant primarily for the leveling experience, while they should have little to no impact on 70 rotations (apart from early cross-Flare being faintly more viable during Umbral Hearts and a Blizzard II during movement less a waste of throughput compared to simply not casting anything for the 1.5 seconds). They are meant to make the Umbral Ice and Astral Fire mechanics more readable (always at equal intervals rather than the weird 50/50/75 or 0/0/50 or 40/60/80 steps) so that the full details can be displayed to the player in-game without seeming convoluted, and make the current waste of time spells at least situationally useful or less punishing in their situational uses for a larger span of levels.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Apart from no longer having to pay attention to when your ultra nuke spell is actually less powerful than your AoE filler, that would be a complexity increase.

I'd kind of have to disagree here.

As the pack size increases, T4's value increases. You will never not use T4 except in like, 3 pack AoE, and this particular variant wouldn't want to use Freeze in 3 packs. It wants to use B4 so you can get into Fire and F4/F4/Flare/Flare.

As pack size increases, the increased value of flare means anything beyond the necessities that prevents you from getting to your next Flare gets dropped. And the necessities are T4 and B4. After that, you start up F3 because you'll definitely hit two ticks by then, go into AF and Flare Flare transpose. Removing the damage penalty of the Stacks also diminishes freeze further in this scenario.

Tranpose being at 10 seconds means you can tranpose, T4, B4, Flare, Flare, Transpose. Why use Cheap Freeze when you can use 260 Flare then uber amped Flare? (Umbral hearts remember)

If there is a complexity increase, it's not notable. I'd see this being a shift back since you basically expanded the Double Flare scenario from 3-6 to 3-8, which covers almost every dungeon pull.

Edit: Even the 3 pack size is probably reduced to just Transpose, B4, Flare Flare.

Edit edit: Also, 1.8 x 260 vs 1.6 x 310, is roughly a 5% increase in potency. (468 vs 496)

Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'd kind of have to disagree here.

As the pack size increases, T4's value increases. You will never not use T4 except in like, 3 pack AoE, and this particular variant wouldn't want to use Freeze in 3 packs. It wants to use B4 so you can get into Fire and F4/F4/Flare/Flare.

As pack size increases, the increased value of flare means anything beyond the necessities that prevents you from getting to your next Flare gets dropped. And the necessities are T4 and B4. After that, you start up F3 because you'll definitely hit two ticks by then, go into AF and Flare Flare transpose. Removing the damage penalty of the Stacks also diminishes freeze further in this scenario.

Tranpose being at 10 seconds means you can tranpose, T4, B4, Flare, Flare, Transpose. Why use Cheap Freeze when you can use 260 Flare then uber amped Flare? (Umbral hearts remember)

If there is a complexity increase, it's not notable. I'd see this being a shift back since you basically expanded the Double Flare scenario from 3-6 to 3-8, which covers almost every dungeon pull.

I wholly remember Umbral Hearts. But I'd rather design not be based solely on the level 70 experience. For only 5 levels does Freeze see any situational use as CC before nearly all dungeon mobs become immune to binds and its low damage makes even an early return from Umbral Ice preferable to casting it, especially if T2 has been recently refreshed. I'd like to see it have something of a place at least until Blizzard IV, if not until Umbral Heart's extension onto Flare.

But you're right about the Freeze viability when removing the 10/15/20% damage penalty at stacks I/II/III from cross-element casting making it both Freeze and even Fire III after acquiring Umbral Hearts less viable during AoE. I'll have to remedy that. I most just wanted for the Umbral Ice and Astral Fire effects to be simple enough that they could actually give the whole information in-game within the spell or trait tooltips (as UI and AF are no longer visible as status effects to be cursed over), without seeming convoluted, rather than players needing to visit a third-party site to see their exact effects.

Originally Posted by Kabooa

The primary issue is that Black Mage wants as little time in UI as possible. In every situation we have now, from low level to high, this remains true. Even at early game, buffing the ice spells only prolongs the inevitable shift.

It would require a fairly significant retooling of the spells we have access to to make Ice Stance worth expanding its duration on, but even those would likely be relegated to "Make fire phase better". If we do end up in a scenario where Ice and Fire have a more equitable balance (50/50, 40/60), I wouldn't mind Ice being an active phase of MP restoration like it works in PvP, with the goal being to minimize the spells needed to hit max MP while also maximizing the damage you put out.

Why would it prolong anything? The same amount of globals spent in UI but with UI damage increased by some 20 to 25% means that portion of damage increased by 20 to 25%. That portion may increase slightly when more mobility is required due to more frequent phase swaps becoming more viable for their quick-casts (slightly quicker still with the above change), but it's relatively small. It just slightly reduces the penalty. It doesn't encourage players to use it any more than they have to, except in that a couple Ice AoE choices now have a few more cases in which they'd be viable.

Personally, I don't feel as if the PvP version of MP restoration per Ice spell is needed or even fitting for PvE. That said, I wouldn't mind a larger bank of action that takes more time to fill. I'd even prefer that if it left additional reasons for highly aware players to cut either phase short to time macrorotational breakpoint around mechanics, essentially giving additional indirect mobility. (This was the primary reason for the deemphasis of cross-element penalties and of Astral-Umbral potency gap: to allow for additional macrorotational breakpoints, and from them: increased mobility.)

Ideally, there's a lot more I would change. But as this was simply for 4.2, I'd be satisfied with indirect mitigation of the costs of mobile or jostled gameplay, a more sensible leveling experience, and more cohesive and coherent Umbral Ice/Astral Fire tooltips (and effects to match).

Said ideal changes would include a revamp of casting to a variable continuous MP drain, rather than cost on completion, that allows for pre-casting without needing a target during the cast itself, and player-specific continuous MP generation that scales somewhat with Spell Speed (while the refresh potency effects have a chance to crit and are affected by determination), while BLM in particular would have its Ice spell MP costs increased towards Fire levels and MP generation adjusted as to allow for macrorotationally viable Umbral phases of anywhere from 1 to 4 globals.

Agree with a lot, especillay the de-nerf of IV spells.
Not ok with the double Foul on single target though : come on, 1300 (or 1400 if it gets boosted) potency in one (MP free btw) spell ? That's ludicrous, you're talking LB1 level potency every 30 seconds, 700 really is good enough.
Foul as it is is already a whooping 22 pps, it's already BIG considering casters potencies. Plus casters are around 180-190 pps so adding 22 more to that (+12% boost) I mean come on, if you make it it's the only boost you'll get (with our gear, we make 32 dmg/potency averaging crits and all so foul is already like 700 dps...)