Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[Jijifli]

Here is my issue with that:
Under normal circumstances, you can't realistically distinguish between lazy play and poor play due to lack of knowledge.

I mean you really cant know for sure unless they tell you and that doesn't happen very often.

If you determine someone to be engaging in 'lazy play' and they didn't tell you themselves, your determination is based solely on your "feelings", as the other data you have access to (such as level) is not reflective of the sincerity of their effort.

If you can't realistically confirm 'lazy play' and are holding those players accountable, you are essentially holding them accountable for the "feeling" you have about them. That's not right.

Players who just don't understand will usually listen.

Lazy people would rather call you nasty things.

[akaneakki]

Let's compare shinryu ex rate clears on pf and farms now and when it was new. You can honestly see how low the rate is now compare to before, hell even just a single clear is nearly impossible these days. Why? The very good players usually leave for a month or two before next patch while the rest is hanging around wondering why they can't clear the extreme version. Ever wonder why people got clear faster before? Because good players still around and there are barely enough ones to carry the ones now.

There are seriously a big gap when content is new vs when its getting 1-2 months old. How certain people act in here just gives me another reason to not help people, like its obvious when they clearly don't want to get better but they expect us to play good/great, yet they don't do it themselves.

[RyuDragnier]

Let's compare shinryu ex rate clears on pf and farms now and when it was new. You can honestly see how low the rate is now compare to before, hell even just a single clear is nearly impossible these days. Why? The very good players usually leave for a month or two before next patch while the rest is hanging around wondering why they can't clear the extreme version. Ever wonder why people got clear faster before? Because good players still around and there are barely enough ones to carry the ones now.

There are seriously a big gap when content is new vs when its getting 1-2 months old. How certain people act in here just gives me another reason to not help people, like its obvious when they clearly don't want to get better but they expect us to play good/great, yet they don't do it themselves.

I've yet to see a Shinryu clear because of people failing the mechs. 90% of the time, I'd rather have a party that can reach enrage without screwing up much compared to one with huge DPS but can't survive mechs, because the enrage group has a CHANCE of success, as long as they step up their game. Remember, numbers mean nothing if you can't survive. You can be the best DPS in the world in terms of damage, but if you can't survive mechs, you're useless to the group...IMO, of course.

[Iscah]

One thing the game does make hard to learn is properly avoiding AoE markers - because it’s not instinctive (and not explained in Hall of the Novice) that the marked area is essentially the attack itself, and the attack animation is actually harmless. It took me a while of “staying in the warning zone until it fades and then getting out because the attack is about to begin” before I finally realised why I was still being hit by attacks I was visually well clear of.

[BillyKaplan]

One thing the game does make hard to learn is properly avoiding AoE markers - because it’s not instinctive (and not explained in Hall of the Novice)

There's a proper exercise in the Hall of the Novice for heals and iirc dps that teach you exactly that.

[Jijifli]

There's a proper exercise in the Hall of the Novice for heals and iirc dps that teach you exactly that.

The entirely optional hall that I see so many newer players skip, while people who already know it all do it because the ring is good.

[BillyKaplan]

The entirely optional hall that I see so many newer players skip, while people who already know it all do it because the ring is good.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink, but you can decide how you respond to it. Have you referred those people to the Hall of the Novice? Have you tried to explain in the Hall's stead? Or do you just expect everyone to start the game with your current level of skill and experience? People here should keep things in proportion and stop taking responsibility for the literal thousands of other players who don't play by their standards. 'This is a game' works in two ways - one, stop demanding perfection from strangers on the internet who won't care as much as you do because it's a game and they're entitled not to care about it, you don't pay their sub. Two, stop demanding perfection on a frigging game with strangers on the internet, love yourself a little bit more.

[Jijifli]

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink, but you can decide how you respond to it. Have you referred those people to the Hall of the Novice? Have you tried to explain in the Hall's stead? Or do you just expect everyone to start the game with your current level of skill and experience? People here should keep things in proportion and stop taking responsibility for the literal thousands of other players who don't play by their standards. 'This is a game' works in two ways - one, stop demanding perfection from strangers on the internet who won't care as much as you do because it's a game and they're entitled not to care about it, you don't pay their sub. Two, stop demanding perfection on a frigging game with strangers on the internet, love yourself a little bit more.

I literally said in my Disclaimer I don't expect perfection. Nobody should.

I have mentioned the Hall to plenty of people. A few have thanked me for it, but plenty more called me an elitist because I thought the hall would help them.

[savageink]

The entirely optional hall that I see so many newer players skip, while people who already know it all do it because the ring is good.

lol! All that gear is good. It's like a full set of dungeon drops.

[Iscah]

[Re. learning AoE avoidance] There's a proper exercise in the Hall of the Novice for heals and iirc dps that teach you exactly that.

Yes, but also no. What the exercise taught me was that the pattern to AoE warning markers was:

1. Warning marker appears
2. Warning marker disappears
3. Nothing happens for a second or so
4. Enemy attacks previously-marked spot

During the exercise, you want to make sure you pass, so move out of the marker as soon as it appears, but in a real battle situation you want to keep attacking for as long as you can, in which case it seems intuitive that the *disappearance* of the marker is your sign to get out of the way in that short space of time between the marker disappearing and the actual attack beginning.

However, what actually happens is:

1. Warning marker appears
2. Warning marker disappears, and anyone still standing in it will be counted as hit by the attack
3. It's now safe to re-enter the previously marked zone
4. You can stand in the middle of the visible explosion and not get hit, while the newbie standing apparently well clear of it will take damage.

This is what's not explained, and goes against what you might naturally expect to happen.