Healing in 4man parties (The experience 60-70)

[HiromiVenia]

Hi, my main is a tank, and i also have dps but this time i wanted to level a healer, because a friend of mine did, and complained a lot (WHM). So i had my scholar 60 ready, then this is a 60 to 70 only experience.

Those are the common bad experiences i got: (Ordered from "okay..." to "this is madness")

1. Tanks pulling 2 trashmobs pulls 6~ mobs (with some bigger ones) but they are using defensive cooldowns properly. Okay...
   
2. Tanks pulling 2 trashmobs pulls and never using defensive cooldowns. I can't even apply healer dps properly here...
   
3. Tanks pulling 2 trashmobs pulls (with some bigger ones) but they are NOT using any defensive cooldowns. Why???
   
   
4. Tanks pulling more than one group of trashmob without even caring if our dps really have the dps to kill them assap (or gear). I can't even apply healer dps here... my mp is draining pointlessly...
   
5. Tanks pulling the entire trash mobs until the dungeon don't let them pull anything else, but at least they use some cooldowns. I can't take it anymore.
   
6. Tanks pulling the entire mobs until the dungeon don't let them pull anymore pulls, don't use any defensive cooldowns, they don't care if there is a big one who cleaves or hits really hard... and wipe. This is madness.

Pain Bonuses:

• Undergeared tanks and dps, not caring to buy npc gear to reach a reasonable ilevel.
• Dps not doing enough dps without lack of understanding how rotation and keybinding work.
• Tanks not even caring about the healer ilevel.

Conclusion: In the end, don't you dare to forget using healing cooldowns (and i always use them anyway) but hey!! they can!!

Nor the tank nor the dps have enough empathy to understand, but again, don't you dare to get mad at them or say anything.

The statistics:

I have timed my dungeons and when the tanks just pull one group at time (or two group when reasonable enough and using defensive cds) applying dps as healer + healing, we finish the dungeon within 13-16 minutes, which is good, since we will play more dungeons and there will be less dps queuing up.

Tanks pulling a lot of shit at once, not even letting the healer apply proper dps: 20-25 minutes, even 30 minutes if there are wipes.

After each wipe after a madness pull, i ask, "Why would you do that? There is no real need to pull all those mobs at once" and they go toxic against me, of course its always the tank but sometimes also the dps defending the argument. No wonder why there is no healer doing dungeons and the dps queues are too long, enjoy them while leveling your new or main dps. If Square Enix introduces another healer, it will just work temporally, because after the trend is over we will just end with bad healing experiences again.


Things Square Enix could do:
I think, if you don't let them pull more than one pull, adding collision barriers to prevent them going further would fix most of the issues here.
Adding challenging, but controlled trash mobs would also be nice for the future of the game.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

you can avoid the character limit by simply editing the post after initially putting it in. that way you don't need to put that link in

[MoroMurasaki]

I don't know how you're finishing leveling/70 dungeons in 13 to 16 minutes with one pack at a time.

I had an FC tank and two very competent FC DPS run Kugane Castle with me on WHM and we made it out in 12 mins with every pull being wall to wall. That was something of a best case scenario (perhaps apart from me) because everyone else in the party was Savage-geared and very good at their jobs. I was on WHM and still did considerable DPS.

To me your post loses all credibility with those times you've listed, they simply can't be true based on my experience.

[LittleChickenNugget]

If you're a healer and you don't have time to dps, just... I don't know.... heal.

I like when my tanks do big pulls and it can get sloppy. It makes healing fun for a change.

[Hestzhyen]

No offense, but it sounds like you went into healing with a lot of pre-conceived notions about how it's supposed go to and found room to complain because of that.

If you don't want the tank to pull more than one mob at a time, tell them up front. Even if they ignore you, at least you asked. But when people see a level 60 healer they expect that healer to be used to the break-neck pace of most dungeons. And again, even if you're ignored, nicely asking the tank to use CDs, pull less, do more to maintain aggro, etc. never hurts. Silently making a list of grievances to post on the forums doesn't solve the problem.

Also, asking "Why would you do that? There is no real need to pull all those mobs at once" is inviting people to be hostile since you're basically 1) telling them to SLOW DOWN without actually being polite about it and 2) being rude on your part by assuming tanks will read your mind and realise you don't want to sprint through the whole dungeon. Plus the way you worded it raises my hackles and I'm not even involved in all these messes you've apparently seen. Maybe politely communicate beforehand that you'd like to have a slower run? The worst they can do is say mean words to you over the internet, which you can report to a GM at the end of the run if they cross a line.

It honestly sounds like you've heard too much of your friend's venting and decided how that's how healing must be, all the time, forever. Get out of the mindset that everyone suddenly becomes 10x dumber and ruder when you're healing and you'll probably have a better time of it. The horror stories you hear about and read are usually far enough from the norm that they're worth sharing, not the standard.

[Claire_Pendragon]

To the OP, dosnt listen to others trying to disagree with you. (Also, for those who don't understand context, I explain what exactly I'm referring to. Not a general rule of thumb here. Just that people liek to claim something cant exist, because of their limited anecdotal experiences.)

The problem is, I couldnt say what is or is not normal, but everyone gets different amounts of experience differences, and will claim their experience is the normal (including us)
Most of my runs worked like what you're saying, but I have had groups, usually with a geared PLD tank, geared DPS good at AoE, and me being geared, where pulling wall to wall was not only fine, but quick runs.
But that was only twice ever.

Usually its an undergeared tank, pulling 2 or more groups, with a massive cleave/hard hitting trash mob there. (usually targets me as a healer, and I go through all my instant heals, trying to weave them between my enhanced Cure2s, since the tank is taking a massive beating. Then I go to dodge, and the tank drops dead the moment my cast bar nearly finishes.

If we wipe, he will repeat the sh*t pull 2 more times, before he's like, maybe i shouldnt pull more with the guy constantly trying to cleave the healer.

I say, it would be fine, if you were beefy enough to survive w/o needing constant oGCDs weaved between cure2s. (this included regens)
Since the oGCD heals were intended for healing while dodging.

I would have more oGCDs as an AST or SCH, so maybe my experience would be different. But it would be a bit tainted, as I still have most of the gear I got when leveling up, so I wont be missing as much dungeon gear.

Also, for some reason people seem to think the SB leveling dungeons are on par with HW dungeons, or SB endgame dungeons in difficulty of how hard hitting trash mobs are.
SB leveling dungeons hit way harder, AND starting at Bardums Run (or w/e its called) they intermix certain hard hitting or cleave enemies, that should be stuned or dealt with 1st, before pulling more mobs. Almost always at the start of the run. Once u get past them, the rest of the dungeon is smooth sailing.

Lastly, good luck with DRKs. They lack the mitigation options other tanks have, and will always go down much quicker, since they will run out of CDs.
But here's the tricky part... Because they dont always have a CD up, its actually BETTER for them to pull 2 groups of mobs, or more. Not because it makes healing them easier, but because the actual pull from group to group, helps CDs return before the fight starts again.
Obviously a PLD and WAR would be easier to heal in 2+ group pulls, compared to DRK, but a DRK is going to be more effective with their mitigation ins 2+ group pulls, even if they are harder to heal.

when people see a level 60 healer they expect that healer to be used to the break-neck pace of most dungeons.

What? Lv1-60 is a joke and super easy. 2.0 unerfed Arum Vale is easier than most of the SB dungeons.
There wasnt a single difficult encounter up till SB. The only difficulty stemed from healers maybe wasting heals/rezzes on people who didnt dodge, which you almost never need to do. (You can solo most of the bosses)
Thats like saying Lv70 dungeons at iLv290 is as hard as the leveling dungeons in SB, when they are jokes, and super easy, even if under geared.

The rest of what you say is closer to the mark though.
But as an addition, Ive notice way too many tanks who would "mass pull" even in low level dungeons, when its a PLD tank, and something like 2 DRGs for DPS, and they cant AoE.
I'm like, why would u do this, im barely getting any DPS out, and its only slowing the dungeon down.

Putting up 2 DoTs wont equate the amount of DPS i would be pumping out as a healer in that scenario.

I feel peopel default to mass pulling, rather than actually picking whats best for the group.

[The_Profezzor87]

The main thing to remember is that other players don't care about your healing woes and you'll just have to do your best. Any advice will trigger other players and possibly get you booted..... You said you have a tank, you should be use to the zombie like state randoms seem to play in. I always say "randoms will be randoms", and don't expect any level of competence from them just do your best.

[MoroMurasaki]

To the OP, dosnt listen to others trying to disagree with you.

That's the spirit. Stay in that echochamber, never listen to conflicting opinions or perspectives.

[Claire_Pendragon]

That's the spirit. Stay in that echochamber, never listen to conflicting opinions or perspectives.

You're doing the same.
(If you read the following text for context, you'd see the comment was mainly directed at your echo chamber example. but I didnt want to point fingers originally. You literally gave anecdotal evidence as counter evidence. Your groups aren't representative of what someone elses groups are like, plus you lumped in the Lv70 dungeons, when the OP clearly means the leveling experience, not the Lv cap experience. THe tests on how effective AoEs have been done multiple times in leveling dungeons, and in Lv cap dungeons. THe most time taken off of Lv cap dungeons was always a very high percentage, but the moment you timed leveling dungeons, you more commonly saw much smaller percentages taken off. Early tests had shown the worst skilled groups doing AoE could take longer than skilled single target groups. You instead decided, nope, my groups saw otherwise, can't be true.)

EDIT: I could only imagine your encounters with "Flat Earthers".
If I said "Dont listen to them" followed by why, you'd say I was just in my echo chamber, despite pointing out how the flat earthers were the ones in the echo chamber.
(There's also a video in here of someone against the OP, who actually proved the concept they were trying to point out, even if they didnt fully grasp the situation. It's fine and dandy to say "I dont believe you" but followed by "It can't be true" is a different story. They aren't the same thing believe it or not.)

[MoroMurasaki]

You're doing the same.

I'm not. I see a section of OP's post titled "the statistics" and then the numbers represented there are entirely fictional. Unless OP exclusively gets amazing DPS every time they get single pull tanks those 13-16 minute dungeon runs are impossible.

If someone can come to me with evidence of a single-pull run of a dungeon that isn't exceptionally short that is within those timeframes I will 100% admit that I'm wrong. I don't expect it but I'll be waiting.

Link me twitch/youtube/FFlogs and I'll be happy to accept any non-antecdotal evidence you can give me.

That's the difference - I don't have to ignore contradictory points of view because I'm reasonably confident I'm correct.