Petition to have the right to post about players in our community

[Masamune1004]

Why should slander of any kind be amusing to anyone?

I said the thread was fun, not slandering. Nice assumptions there.

On-Topic: Threads about people behaving this way wouldn't be necessary if the GMs would do their job. When someone goes around harassing others and the person doesn't get banned for it, people need to know that that person is someone who you don't want to be around. If I was a new player and my first party experience ended with me getting harassed, then I reported him and still saw him around, I'd probably quit honestly. Something needs to be done, and if the GMs won't do it, it's up to the players themselves to warn others.

[Matsume]

Slander: a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report.

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image.

If you post inended to 'give an individual a negative image' by definition you hath commited defamation and thus slander. I hate to parse semantics, so please, lets not do this again.

Accountability may not be important to you, but it is to me. That's just how it's going to be.

First of all, not once did I say accountability is not important to me - that is an assumption on your part based on a single post of mine (should I remind you that to assume only makes an ASS out of U and ME?)

Also, I've expressed negative sentiments about typical Americanisms myself, and being American, it's really easy to do, but I honestly can't stand when someone on the internet starts throwing it out there as a weight for their point. It's typical of people, and not one nation. That adage is actually a really bad example of this case, imo.

As for the second part, Yes!, you are right that the adage is a really bad example of this case, I whole heartedly agree, but it did not stop the adage from popping up into my head? Why is that? Because Masamune said: "Aww, they took it down? Why do the most fun threads always get deleted ; ;. " Which leads the reader to believe he thought it was fun that you made a thread denouncing another players actions. This is like someone having fun publicly stoning a "witch".

I said the thread was fun, not slandering. Nice assumptions there.

I didn't make an assumption Masamune, you claimed his thread - which intended to give a player a negative image (slander/Defamation)- was fun. Just because you call it X does not mean it isnt Y.

On-Topic: Threads about people behaving this way wouldn't be necessary if the GMs would do their job. When someone goes around harassing others and the person doesn't get banned for it, people need to know that that person is someone who you don't want to be around. If I was a new player and my first party experience ended with me getting harassed, then I reported him and still saw him around, I'd probably quit honestly. Something needs to be done, and if the GMs won't do it, it's up to the players themselves to warn others.

Why do you think a GMs job consists of banning other players for harassment? I can pull up a GM job application right now, and that is not part of the job description. It is your responsibility as a player is to Blacklist someone if they cause you trouble, not cry to a GM to fix every little issue you have with this game.

Furthermore you can post in your LS chat that player X has caused you trouble, and word will spread. If others experience the same issue, they too will blacklist player X and eventually he will find himself all alone. If you want quit because a GM wont do what you think they should do to a player that caused you problems that you refuse to blacklist, then by all means, quit.

Players should be able to warn each other in game without having to resort to a Scarlet Letter thread that could tarnish a players reputation going on into the future. Look another post mentioned, this player could have been having a bad day and might have just been blowing off steam at anyone and everyone around him. Does this really merit a forum thread dedicated to proving he is someone to avoid?

[Viridiana]

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image.

If you post inended to 'give an individual a negative image' by definition you hath commited defamation and thus slander. I hate to parse semantics, so please, lets not do this again.

Didn't read the rest (because it isn't directed to me and I don't plan on joining the main convo.), but I did have two comments to make here:

1. Has anyone actually used the word "calumny" seriously outside of that one line from Hamlet? >_>

2. Slander requires as part of its definition that the statement be a false one. It literally isn't slander if it's true.

[Masamune1004]

I didn't make an assumption Masamune, you claimed his thread - which intended to give a player a negative image (slander/Defamation)- was fun. Just because you call it X does not mean it isnt Y.

Just because the OP is about something doesn't mean that every single reply is about the same thing. For all you know we could've been making completely off-topic funny jokes.

Why do you think a GMs job consists of banning other players for harassment? I can pull up a GM job application right now, and that is not part of the job description. It is your responsibility as a player is to Blacklist someone if they cause you trouble, not cry to a GM to fix every little issue you have with this game.

Our Definition of Harassment
The use of inappropriate and offensive language in general, or against another player is considered harassment in FINAL FANTASY XIV and is strictly prohibited. Using offensive language for character and retainer name, or spreading the inappropriate words in the character’s first and last names is also considered harassment. All claims of harassment are evaluated on a case by case basis and the action taken can be varied based upon the situation at that time. If harassment is found, the account penalty will be issued to all players who involve in the harassment.

•The use of language that is generally considered unacceptable in a public venue
•Any language that is purposely meant to harm or harass a third party
•Any language that promotes the discrimination of any race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation or gender

There may be inappropriate conduct that does not fit into any of the above categories that may be considered harassment and as such would constitute an actionable offense.

In accordance with our privacy and confidentiality policies, the GM will not inform the victim of any disciplinary action that was issued.

Taken straight from SE's Support Center, which implies that they do handle harassment cases.

Furthermore you can post in your LS chat that player X has caused you trouble, and word will spread. If others experience the same issue, they too will blacklist player X and eventually he will find himself all alone. If you want quit because a GM wont do what you think they should do to a player that caused you problems that you refuse to blacklist, then by all means, quit.

I'd rather no one be exposed to harassment. You can /blist them and tell your LS about them, but that doesn't help the new players that might have the unfortunate chance of being in a party with them. If they get harassed by them, they may assume that all people on the game are like this and quit. Do you truly think that SE doesn't care about people quitting their game and losing money?

Players should be able to warn each other in game without having to resort to a Scarlet Letter thread that could tarnish a players reputation going on into the future. Look another post mentioned, this player could have been having a bad day and might have just been blowing off steam at anyone and everyone around him. Does this really merit a forum thread dedicated to proving he is someone to avoid?

No, it doesn't. This wouldn't be necessary if people were banned for repeated harassment cases. I can understand sometimes people have bad days, but if it keeps happening, something needs to be done. I guess I should've been more clear in my post. I don't think they should be banned right away of course.

[Saiph]

Sounds to me like you want digital stoning?
Did he insult you rly that much that you go rampage on the forums now?
Report him to GMs and /blacklist him. Maybe he had a bad day. If not and he insults everyone like that, he will get report quite often and get blocked or banned by GMs or whatever.

[Mamba]

No, no and no.

I made a thread a while ago about a "bad player" and told my story of a guy who was rude to me (without names).
I would never, in MILLION YEARS, give out his name though - well not on forums at least.

There is always two sides to a story and sometimes people who get mentioned in posts like that won't even know about the post to go defend themselves.

Also, I do think that sometimes even the virtual bullies just need a friend to make them stop being idiots - flaming them on forums wont actually make any difference, well it could actually make things worse.

[viion]

No, no and no.

I made a thread a while ago about a "bad player" and told my story of a guy who was rude to me (without names).
I would never, in MILLION YEARS, give out his name though - well not on forums at least.

There is always two sides to a story and sometimes people who get mentioned in posts like that won't even know about the post to go defend themselves.

Also, I do think that sometimes even the virtual bullies just need a friend to make them stop being idiots - flaming them on forums wont actually make any difference, well it could actually make things worse.

This sums it up why this is a bad idea and posts should be deleted.

But regarding report to GM, lols dont make me laugh so hard. GM Auto Response aka Deal with it.

[DrekeLamorte]

No, no and no.

I made a thread a while ago about a "bad player" and told my story of a guy who was rude to me (without names).
I would never, in MILLION YEARS, give out his name though - well not on forums at least.

There is always two sides to a story and sometimes people who get mentioned in posts like that won't even know about the post to go defend themselves.

Also, I do think that sometimes even the virtual bullies just need a friend to make them stop being idiots - flaming them on forums wont actually make any difference, well it could actually make things worse.

Some people are actually flamers and trolls and post things maliciously for thing or another, but posting legitimate SS and explaining, and having that same sentiment reaffirmed by many people on your server at 2-5 A.M. should attest to a persons character, and if I had a bad reputation, I would do what I could to fix it. I hold myself to the same standards I hold others. This isn't a case of an internet-bully. This is a person who wants to get what he wants, and if it doesn't go well. Well... the word vomit and blood-eyes come out. I understand all your points, and I really agree with "flaming is bad" but, internet, let me remind you. Flaming =/= telling the truth. Some people pretend they're telling the truth, and others just act contrary anyways, because they can, or in a moment judgement lapse. This is none of the above.

Personal experience aside. I still want a link to a REAL forum for my server, because these official forums are not it. This is a place to say whatever you want to whomever about whatever as long as SE can't be held liable for it. Atleast that's how most people treat it, unfortunately.

I want a real forum, with moderators.

[Phe]

imagine someone who doesn't like you and post some freely invented accusations.
that person has 10 friends who write supporting posts that promote that character assassination of yours.
that's why it's not allowed in the forums and neither IRL.

warn your friends and your LS if you think you have to, but you are not a lawyer in the duty to save your server from evil.
you want a virtual pillory? we don't.

[Rhomagus]

imagine someone who doesn't like you and post some freely invented accusations.
that person has 10 friends who write supporting posts that promote that character assassination of yours.
that's why it's not allowed in the forums and neither IRL.

warn your friends and your LS if you think you have to, but you are not a lawyer in the duty to save your server from evil.
you want a virtual pillory? we don't.

No, no and no.

I made a thread a while ago about a "bad player" and told my story of a guy who was rude to me (without names).
I would never, in MILLION YEARS, give out his name though - well not on forums at least.

There is always two sides to a story and sometimes people who get mentioned in posts like that won't even know about the post to go defend themselves.

Also, I do think that sometimes even the virtual bullies just need a friend to make them stop being idiots - flaming them on forums wont actually make any difference, well it could actually make things worse.

Hate to say it. But i'm against this. All this would do is create drama on a forum, and i can understand why SE wouldn't want it on their site.

If you want to post about a person in particular do it on a shell forum. If someone is an ass online (which most people are), then just tell your friends. /blacklist them (if that exists... i haven't even managed to talk to anyone in game yet lol).

You can't expect a public forum for a company to become a shame list, anything posted is here say, even if you post screen caps those can be modified pretty easily... but you get the idea. You met someone on the internet who is acting like an immature child. This happens.. hell, i was playing dota 2 with a real life friend of mine for over a decade and he is "no longer my friend" because i wouldn't defend the fact he was getting called on playing horribly by the rest of my team. Still kinda in shock about that... but i guess that is what online gaming does to people. It turns them all into children the second they don't get what they want.

People make their own reputations. They don't need anyone else's help.

Posting about individual people, and their 'supposed' reputations is a VERY bad idea. You may realize that not everyone is entirely honest, and all this type of activity does is lead to flame wars.

Because this is a uniquely server issue, you are far better off just blacklisting the person, and telling the people you know to avoid or be catious of that individual.

Plus why waste the moderators time by forcing them to manage these types of threads? They did the right thing in deleting it.

The preceding quotes effectively argue against the proposals laid out in the OP while still maintaining sympathy for the OP's point of view. I am inclined to agree with them.

Everyone has their own opinion and quite honestly, if you really wanted to defame or hurt such an individual, telling the people you play with is all that's necessary. Putting it on the official forums enhances the effect, but doesn't add validity and only encourages forum goers to slander people they don't like. If SE were to officially respond to such accusations on the forums then people would get the idea that if they slander someone enough that they don't like outside the game, they can then get what they want. That, in and of itself, is a form of bullying. Involving more people that agree with you doesn't change that.

I've seen posts about "supposed" botters, that don't provide solid proof or evidence of botting. They see people glitching in the game and instead of blaming the game's code or network speeds, they call it hacking. Only because of the Ifrit fight mechanics is the laymen audience aware, from an objective standpoint, that there is a coding/network issue with the game that causes people to look like they're in a different place than where they are. Posting erroneous information, even if the poster believes it to be true, could greatly damage an otherwise innocent person's reputation. How many people read every post in a thread before coming to a conclusion? It would not be a righteously moral road to go down if the community were to wholeheartedly condone the OP's proposals. Having sympathy for another's plight who may find him/herself in a similar situation is completely understandable but no one has a monopoly on the truth and the governing authority, in this case Square-Enix, should not act on, nor condone, posts slandering any individual.

Despite that, the OP still has options. They can warn every individual they come in contact with in-game about the person in question from their closest friends and linkshell comrades to random experience parties and repair requests. On Besaid, they'll probably feel it instantaneously. I don't condone such behavior and I would say just let it be, but if the OP is intent on being malicious there are still methods they could pursue.