Pre-pull regen?

[Usho]

I was tanking ala Mhigo on PLD yesterday and the WHM kept on putting regen on me before each pull. I was too tired to say anything about so I just kept unticking Regen each time. But when we got to the apes after the first boss, I just had enough and kindly told her to please stop using regen on me before I pull. She proceeds to say "I'll heal how I want. It's fine." And thus she kept doing it. She didn't even bother to dps.

[Usho]

continued...

And in return, I didn't use any abilities to reduce her damage. Tried to kick her from the party, but both the dps defended her for being a bad healer. We got through the instance but I was in Shield Oath the entire run cause I didn't trust her.

Instance ends. For the first time in a while I felt compelled to NOT comm a healer as a tank. Moral of the story: If your a healer with a HoT do NOT use it on the tank til he is done pulling the pack of mobs he is trying to pull! Don't be shocked if you get yelled at or possibly kicked if you continue to do so despite the tank or tanks telling you not too.

If your a tank: Untick regen if your healer does so before each pull. Otherwise he or she will assume that's okay and you will be in essence allowing them to be bad. Ask them kindly not to prepull regen. If they stop, then problem solved. If they continue, you know what you need to do.


/2 cents

[Akor]

Just pull 1 mob and let the other mobs and let the heal aggro the rest. I learned the hard way too and never done it after. LUL

[Sebazy]

What am I supposed to take from the video? That pre-regens are okie-dokey?

Ok. But you never cleansed the tank. The BLM is on cloud-nine. The tank is desperately spamming Flash and CoS. Basically, you guys are succeeding despite less than optimal, even average play, and this is supposed to prove that preemptive regen is a good thing? But kudos to you, I am quite sure your fflogs are higher than everyone in that group. This couldn't mean that you are playing than anything other than optimal, correct? However, how would you rate your group's performance as a whole? And how do you think they would fare in content less forgiving?.

No, as I've stated (And Vanille stated right above your post), keep an open mind and never say never. Hitting a regen before everything is planted is frequently absolutely fine.

On the poison dot thing, do you realise how little damage that dot actually does? (Spoiler, amusingly little, it's either bugged or a troll ability frankly) I don't cleanse it because it's just not worth the GCD to do so.

I'll agree the blm was caught napping, but at the end of the day, he did 5.4k dps across the run which is highly respectable and miles above the 'average' (And well above what I did across the entirety of the run ofc). The Nin was at ~4.8k or thereabouts, also more than me (3.4k) for reference, this was his second run ever in the dungeon and as a weekly raid logger, he did absolutely fine, well above average right out of the gate with plenty more room for improvement once he figured out decent timings for his CDs. Not really sure what Coro was doing, I'd assume he was being lazy since he was on PLD and sitting pretty in Shield Oath. I've never really seen PLDs do much more than the numbers he did, but frankly Warriors are so far ahead of everyone else in the current expert dungeons that it's fairly irrelevant anyway.

My personal performance on that pull was reasonably close to 'optimal' IMHO, frankly I could have either not used Tetra or not bothered with the second regen until we were about to tag the boss. I also wasted a few GCDs on the pull that I could have used to get Aeros up on the larve whilst we were still moving as well. More importantly tho, I didn't step on anyone's toes or cost the group any DPS in doing what I did. I'd have done precisely the same thing with a warrior in deliverance frankly. Even if I pulled hate off them towards the end of that trash pack: A)It doesn't matter because it doesn't hit hard enough and B)In some regards, it's a benefit because I'm absorbing a little of the damage from the tank with my own HP pool meaning I'm even less likely to need to top anyone for the boss. Obviously, I'm already 'optimising' to try hard standards as it is, beyond that is getting into silly territory for something that doesn't have rankings to chase or such.

*edit*

I'd legitimately be interested in knowing what you think I could have done better or even more optimally there? It'd make for a good alternative PoV I think.

If you want an easier reference to go by, that entire Skalla run was just under 15 minutes long. That's a pretty decent time by my thinking, my DF average is more around 20 minutes. If 15 minutes is your average then blimey.

I wonder... How do you do when shit actually hits the fan? Based off of your video, I wouldn't be so confident.

Challenge accepted!

Gordias: WHM Healing all-stars - 4th in the world
Midas: WHM Healing all-stars - 24th in the world (Had a fairly nasty house fire that halted my progression in early A8)
Creator: AST Healing all-stars - 2nd in the world
Omega: WHM Healing all-stars - 82nd in the world, my group made me DPS more =(

As the numbers above suggest, I'm actually a lot more reserved in raids, erring on the side of being much too cautious. My high HPS rankings are actually kind of a booby prize, hardly something to be proud of. It just means that I'm pushing my co-healer to DPS more and optimising less than I could be due to not being willing to trust the rest of the group to not make mistakes.

An old replay of A12S that I uploaded previously if you're interested in how I play in raids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGUMzl2cV0

As you've probably noticed, dungeons and 24 mans are my cheeky little DPS outlet. Why? Because quite frankly, bar maybe 2 pulls in the entire expansion (First pull in bardams, double apes+dogs+mech in Ala Mhigo), it's actually pretty hard to fail enough to cause a wipe outside of ex/savage. Most of the time, it's somewhere between irrelevant and easily recovered.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

6 pages worth of discussion for something that's been ground down, rebuild and ground down again since the start of ARR? All I can recommend at this point is to level a tank and find a white mage buddy for 35+ content, have a permanent regen on you and experience it yourself from a tank's perspective

[EaMett]

Personally, I tank (PLD) most of the 4 man content because it makes for shorter queues. Ex roulette is the only one I heal because I like to get through them quickly and fast paced tanks are easier to find than healers who dps hard.

Regen mid pull is absolutely fine (pre pull doesn't really make sense or line up right with your other skills). Just if, for whatever reason, the tank misses a mob, bring it back to him (don't stand 50 yalms away). Even better is to run along side them.

The only times you want to refrain from doing so is if your tank is finding it hard to grab aggro because of it. Either they aren't comfortable with their class, have bad latency, are low on mana, are warriors (the conal does make it harder), or simply dislike it.
Literally takes two pulls to get an idea of the situation and adjust.

Regen mid pull is an extra dps uptime of a few GCDs as it aligns perfectly with your other skills, keeping you from having to tetra/bene/cure early in the pull (or sometimes even at all).
It's way more wasteful to use an ogcd while or at the end of running and then use a GCD on regen once you arrive at your destination. (Or even worse, use a gcd after running)

When you factor in the fact that most of the time it makes perfect sense on large pulls for the tanks to free up as much healer dps as possible (holy is unrivaled). Making your life as a healer easier should be the default. Only cast it aside if your tank is having trouble.
(And make sure you make it up to them on bosses since it should be your job to make sure they never use tank stance )

[Usho]

Regen mid pull is absolutely fine (pre pull doesn't really make sense or line up right with your other skills). Just if, for whatever reason, the tank misses a mob, bring it back to him (don't stand 50 yalms away). Even better is to run along side them.


When you factor in the fact that most of the time it makes perfect sense on large pulls for the tanks to free up as much healer dps as possible (holy is unrivaled). Making your life as a healer easier should be the default. Only cast it aside if your tank is having trouble.
(And make sure you make it up to them on bosses since it should be your job to make sure they never use tank stance )

As a tank and healer, I wish I could Like this comment more than once... +2 Respect and Like points Mett

[Chortle]

Is this the FF equivalent of "first world problems"?

[TaleraRistain]

Thank you, everyone, for making it to page 6 and still having a civil, logical discussion. There are some really good points made about instances where prepull regen might be useful, though it does still seem to be highly situational. I still won't do this in PUGs since I won't know how the tank will pull and don't see any reason to put additional strain on the party, but I may propose some tactics to my tank buddies and see what we might be able to pull off. I used to experiment a lot in previous MMOs. FF doesn't have a lot of room for that, but I do like to think outside the box where it does allow you to.

[Linx0r]

continued...

And in return, I didn't use any abilities to reduce her damage. Tried to kick her from the party, but both the dps defended her for being a bad healer. We got through the instance but I was in Shield Oath the entire run cause I didn't trust her.

/2 cents

Not that I agree with pre-regen pulling but, in this case, maybe be the better person and not add salt to the run? Yelling or kicking someone for this isn't the answer. I'm assuming you are a good enough tank that you can re-gain agro in this case? And tanking adds in Shield Oath? you sir, are a monster. I kid, I kid, but seriously, why make a big deal out of this? People play how they want, no matter how big or small a tantrum you have, so why complain? Be nice, play nice