Pre-pull regen?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Continued...(damn forum character limit)


But I've seen, especially since the start of Stormblood, and even during 50-70 dungeon runs that a lot of healers will be prepull regening the tanks and then they wonder why they have aggro and blame the tank. Like dude, it should be obvious...at LEVEL 70 why you are getting aggro. How can you be a max level healer and not know something that basic? I don't understand.

If the party wants to kick me because the healer isn't letting me do my job properly and thus sabotaging the run, then fine. I have tank privilege, so I can requeue and be back in the dungeon in less than 5 mins, most times instantly so I don't care. More tomes for me and they can wait longer for a new tank.

you could just finish the message and edit it afterwards. For whatever reason, the limitation doesn't apply towards editing

[Avatre]

you could just finish the message and edit it afterwards. For whatever reason, the limitation doesn't apply towards editing

Probably so people can still post even after they reach their daily limit of new posts.

[Chronons]

As a tank player I have noticed this trend as well. I believe it came about as a result of the big pulls that have become standardized in the SB dungeons and how hard those mobs hit compared to older content. A regen can help the healer keep from feeling so far behind once the pull is stabilized.

That being said, I dont see that a pre-pull regen is ever necessary in dungeon content. Maybe in a raid to fit some dps in a party buff window or something, but single target emnity is much easier to manage. As a ps4 player its a pain in the butt to click off, so if you insist on doing it please accept that you then get to help wrangle together the pull.

[AphraelAmarantha]

Hmm... didn't realize this was such a big issue. I try not to pre-pull regen but I don't always succeed there, usually its when if I cast Medica II or Regen late in a fight, not realizing that the mobs or boss was about to die x_X.

The only other issue I have is when the tank goes super fast and I can't keep up or moves on before I'm ready. Sometimes my sprint is still on cooldown from a boss or I am trying to deal with the loot auction popup. This is particularly true in Expert dungeons, the tank gets too far ahead and they die because I cant get to them in time. They then do smaller pulls which is ok but its not that I cant handle bigger pulls, the tank just ran too far ahead and I couldn't keep up x_x (I think the fastest I've finished an expert dungeon is probably 13 minutes because of everyone wanting to be Sanic and gotta go fast lol).

Recently, I've been using Divine Benison more often as a prepull thing (and staying away from regen) if I have the lilies. It makes mine and the tank's job a lot easier and I don't have to worry too much if they get too far ahead lol.

[Bahati]

I always considered rule one of healing do NOT pre regen before a pull. It's not worth disrupting your tank's pull for one tic of regen. On WHM I start my (snail slow) DOT cast and usually by the time it's about 75% through cast time all mobs have red names thus pulled as needed, then my cast goes off. I'll regen after that.

I don't use Medica II much unless everyone else is also taking damage or there happen to be AOEs among the pack I think may hit someone other than the tank. Always remember your tank is fighting you and the DPS for hate on top of keeping mobs clustered so try not to overheal and make things harder than they need to be. We all have an emergency instant heal if it comes down to it.

[winsock]

Not sure why healers would want to regen pre-pull. Pre-pull regen puts you into combat immediately, which means you miss out on the out-of-combat MP ticks while traveling.

Mob spacing can make it impossible for the the tank to keep threat off you 100% of the time, and if he needs to backtrack, he will take more dmg than necessary as the distance between him and the trailing mobs will close.

Direct heals are much better for mid pull healing. You can ensure the heal goes off at an appropriate time and stay out if combat until necessary.

[era1Ne]

Not sure why healers would want to regen pre-pull. Pre-pull regen puts you into combat immediately, which means you miss out on the out-of-combat MP ticks while traveling.

Mob spacing can make it impossible for the the tank to keep threat off you 100% of the time, and if he needs to backtrack, he will take more dmg than necessary as the distance between him and the trailing mobs will close.

Sometimes it happens that the tank has still an reggen on him after a mob group, when he does pull the next enemys and i have rarely encountered that the healer is getting aggro. Imo people are right, healers should try to prevent overheal as much as possible, but holding aggro against an single target reggen, really shouldn't be an huge issue, if the tank does aoe aggro skill on the mobs.

Not at all. I stopped reading because maximizing dps isn't even in the realm of what this thread addresses. Posts like yours, is what veers a thread off topic, and into another healer dps debate. Sorry, not taking that bait.

Basically, what I'm saying is I can't think of any situation where it is optimal for the healer to grab initial hate, because that is exactly what Regen does. Your tank will always have to compensate for this, and work just a little harder, even if just a shoulder shrug to get the hate off of you. Sure, your dps goes up, and the tank's goes down.

Some raids or boss fights have nice benefits for pre pull reggen. The most notable example at the moment is v4s with the almagast right at the start. Tanks have it so easy at the moment to hold aggro of an single target enemy, especially as war it is an joke. As war you can pull in tank stance with hawk, heal yourself and boom aggro for days (slightly hyperhole ofc), even without using one aggro combo. Besides, if an tank really doesn't want pre pull reggen in an boss fight (not talking about trash mobs here), then i wonder what they say to their other teammates about their opener, because those will quickly generate much more aggro than an simple reggen ever will. Therefore he doesn't lose anything, because he has to generate much more hate anyway in order to not loose aggro in raids/boss fights, if the others, especially dd do their opener.

When I speak optimal, I'm talking the entire party. Not just my own.

Pre Pull reggen can save in bossfights the healers an gcd and thats a overall gain compared to tanks doing one more aggro combo, which they don't have to do anyways for the reason i explained. Here is the math for the drk as an quick example:

aggro combo potency = 150+220+300 = 670 (should be 536p in tank stance)
dmg combo = 150+250+300 = 700
difference: 164p

Malefic, stone IV or broil II have more potency than the difference of the aggro vs dmg combo, even if we make the false assumption and believe tanks have to do one more aggro combo to keep threat against pre pull reggen. This means, if an tank is an teamplayer and puts the performance of the team above his own, then he wants healer to do pre pull reggen. At least in boss fights. Dungeons are another matter.

I'm sorry, but how is "this is the optimal way to use this skill in this situation DPS-wise" in anyway out of "the realm of what this thread addresses", when the thread is specifically about what's the best way to use the discussed skill in discussed situation? What Sebazy said is no doubt the optimal way to do it DPS-wise - and for the whole party, not just the healer - and pointing that out is definitely relevant for the discussion and for the OP. It doesn't mean that this is how the skill should be used in DF groups most of the time, and Sebazy didn't claim that either. No one is debating or derailing here except for you.

Well said and i totally agree with you. Seb seems to be a nice person and this is the second time, i see an unfriendly response to sebazy post. I don't really get it, because those are well written and detailed.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Well said and i totally agree with you. Seb seems to be a nice person and this is the second time, i see an unfriendly response to sebazy post. I don't really get it, because those are well written and detailed.

This isn't exactly limited to Sebas. I mean, try to elaborate anything related to healer DPS that makes sense and you'll see a certain, eh... archetype(?) of healer pop out, barking and growling like some cornered animal*.

*Merely an analogy, don't get your panties twisted, please

[TaleraRistain]

Not sure why healers would want to regen pre-pull. Pre-pull regen puts you into combat immediately, which means you miss out on the out-of-combat MP ticks while traveling.

That's a really good point on the out-of-combat MP ticks. I'm usually already dropping Aero III while the tank gathers, so I wouldn't see as much benefit.

And I was almost chunky salsa the other night in an Expert run because I accidentally hit the wrong button and dropped regen on the tank while he was gathering. He was *definitely* not AoEing, lol! So I believe I will stand by my policy of not dropping regen with unfamiliar tanks.

[Maku]

I pre-regen before bosses because why not? 1 action from the tank takes any hate the ticks will take and I can start DPSing earlier.

Pre-regen before a pull of trash mobs however is a huge no no. It doesn't really help much and just makes it harder on the tank to pull all of the mobs to the same spot quickly.

That being said, tanks need to click off their regen that is on them from the previous pull if they pull fast enough that it doesn't wear off in transit.