How would you make RDM more complex?

[TarynH]

Waaah

Then don't engage me in discussion, if you don't want to discuss it. Seems to me that you can't help but engage people with differing opinions.

Your thread title explicitly asks, "How would you make RDM more complex?" And you get mad when people say they wouldn't. I never said the devs said it would be a simple job. But they obviously made it a simple job, and have made no hint that it would change. Therefore, atm, it is working as intended.

But I can ask you the same thing. Where's your dev testimonial that states it will become more complex? Nobody has ever said that it will. Nobody has said that they will change it either. Or how about your dev testimonial that states all jobs have to eventually be complex to be enjoyable?

And your suggestions are asinine. You basically gave it an ability to "spend all mana to throw out spells fast to get back to your sword combo." With no ability or compensation to restore the lost mana. It's like an "all in and sit there with nothing to do for awhile" move. And on top of that, you want to decrease the potency as you're "all in."

Your acceleration cascade could be a trait. No need for that to be an extra button push. And applied discipline is just... why? Reduced damage for 15sec? Why not just a free enchanted combo every 2 minutes? It's basically what you want there. It really doesn't even need the damage reduction. Just have it require black/white mana to be over or equal to the opener.

You're just adding button press bulk to the job for some quick burst dps, simply because you obviously like the sword part of it. That's where all three of your abilities lead... to the sword combo. Which is fine. I like the sword combo too. That's my favorite part of the job; zipping in for the sword combo and zipping out. I just don't need it to be more complicated than that to enjoy it.

You immediately derailed the topic with the other two in the span of 2 minutes and you could've kept browsing. The onus is on you.

You actually derailed your own thread by going after the first person that said they didn't want RDM changed. When you could've just let it stand. So onus returned.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Acceleration Cascade would be a trait, didn't think I needed to specify. Chainspell drains mana. As in not MP as in Black and White Mana, you confused the two, mana is not MP this isn't WoW. And now you're making assumptions about what I want. I like the caster part of RDM, the idea of Chainspell is to go all in on that aspect of it. I noted applied discipline would need more polish, but if you got to do 2 combos back to back each around 1000 potency over 7 seconds obviously it'd need to be toned down a little. Neither of the first two were a bid to make melee mage a thing, I was more focused on RDMs style of rapid casting, which it seems was easily lost on you since you didn't bother to ask for any clarification or questions you just attacked without the slightest clue. I was addressing concerns that anything I said would make the class overly complex and frankly they wouldn't, playing the class would remain largely the same. Excuse me for trying to address the concerns of the 3 exactly the same posts, next time I'll just ignore you

@Karshan I acknowledged that complexity wasn't the only route they could take. It seems evident that people were responding to the title, not the actual content. When I picked up Red Mage I was far more absorbed in the enjiyability of playing a spellsword rather than immediately thinking about complexity and whether or not the gameplay would feel rewarding at the end game. I made literally 0 attempt to convince people that it has to has to has to be more complex. I said my piece and put forth some small suggestions. It's not my fault if people glean meaning that's not there.

[Shurrikhan]

Then don't engage me in discussion, if you don't want to discuss it. Seems to me that you can't help but engage people with differing opinions.

Your thread title explicitly asks, "How would you make RDM more complex?" And you get mad when people say they wouldn't.

Doesn't this work both ways? If you enter a thread specifically on making Red Mage MORE complex, why would you then engage in a merely adjacent discussion and complain that it is marginalized as such, let alone by the person who laid out the parameters for the thread's purpose?

Yes, an external voice saying "Personally, I don't want this thread to go anywhere, because it would result in something I'd dislike," is fair, but it's certainly not wholly relevant to the thread's stated purpose.

And if we take the purpose of the thread more broadly, as its ideas being aimed at the improvement of RDM, and that the design path this one focuses on in particular may yield poor results for its general purpose, then perhaps your warrants ought to be directed towards what does or does not provide good RDM gameplay to you and others with similar tastes, rather than muddying the waters with what the devs would or would not prefer to do -- which was already presented as irrelevant.

Of course, now I'm the worst of the bunch, as I'm spending a post commenting on a post on commenting on a post on commenting on a post... (See prior post for on-topic thoughts.)

[TarynH]

Doesn't this work both ways?

Not in this particular case. I never said I wouldn't engage in a discussion with someone. The OP made it clear they wouldn't, but proceeded to do so anyway. (Actually began the discussion.) But it's all moot now. Water under the bridge.

[Miyoyo]

I enjoy Red Mage as the simplest dps and can definitely see why others want to keep it that way, personally however its missing jussssst a little bit of depth for me to find it enjoyable.
So with that being said...
I'd like to see two dots, 40 potency or so, 30s duration (in line with bards) and gives 1 black/white mana every tick.

Then at a higher level, give them a scourge like ability, spread the dots but with half the duration, so you'd put the dots on a single target, then spread it to 5 or 6 targets with a 15s duration.

This would add a tiny bit of complexity to single target gameplay, having to keep up two very simple 30s dot but also do a lot for red mages rather poor aoe game.
On large pulls you'd essentially be gaining anywhere between 6 and 10 white/black mana every 3 seconds which gives you a lot more mana to spend using Moulinet as opposed to almost entirely scatter.

Although i don't imagine necessary they might cap the mana generation at 10.

[Dualgunner]

I'd like to see two dots, 40 potency or so, 30s duration (in line with bards) and gives 1 black/white mana every tick.

*cries*

Why does everyone want DOTS

I know they're a simple way to add complexity but every job does it (except DRK)