How would you make RDM more complex?

[Llugen]

The most valid reason for Impact not being a proc of Jolt II is that since Impact is still hardcast rather than instant cast, the proc could fall off mid-cast, which may be problematic from a programming standpoint with the differences in job gauge increase. This could probably be fixed by just making it instant cast, but that has implications for dualcast, kinda.

I didn’t read most of this thread (including the OP), but in response to the thread title, I honestly don’t think they have any intention of making RDM any more complex. Their goal in 4.0 was to simplify the jobs, and while there was certainly mixed success with this (I'm looking at you, SMN), it’s good for the community to have at least one job that is extremely accessible.

However, if I personally was charged with making adjustments, I would make verflare/verholy have different effects on top of the gauge increases to incentivize strategy for which to use when over just "which gauge is lower" (maybe one with a DoT and one with a damage vuln), and then I would probably make something reduce the timer(s) on manafication and potentially Fleche and Contre Sixte (such as whenever you get a verfire/verstone proc). I'd also kinda like to see separate melee combos, one aoe combo (because just Moulinet is boring) one strong single target combo (Full Thrust) and one damage up one (Chaos Thrust), or something. This would make planning ahead on the job more valuable and add some complexity and nuance.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Again, more complex does not necessarily mean playing grand orchestra style piano on your keyboard. I'm not talking about adding a hundred new buttons to press nor a mega mandatory maintenance buff that gimps you for forced inactivity. I'm talking about maybe one or two more variables other than, "do have proc?", or "how big number to stab?". I quit playing SMN over the massive amount of micro management, RDM is a fun change of pace but that pace need not always be a leisurely meander through the tulip garden.

@Llugen I rather like those suggestions tbh, more incentive without anything too superfluous. Sorry for any discord in the past, what a shame we can't have a proper discussion about this.

@Kabooa I legitimately hadn't thought about consuming mana for support buffs, and I like the idea. I am a little unclear on how the Impact change would work.

[Kabooa]

Again, more complex does not necessarily mean playing grand orchestra style piano on your keyboard. I'm not talking about adding a hundred new buttons to press nor a mega mandatory maintenance buff that gimps you for forced inactivity. I'm talking about maybe one or two more variables other than, "do have proc?", or "how big number to stab?". I quit playing SMN over the massive amount of micro management, RDM is a fun change of pace but that pace need not always be a leisurely meander through the tulip garden.

With this in mind, the Impact suggestion I made alone seems sufficient for a variable piece. A priority use depending on what you need at the moment and that you plan ahead for.

Also Flare Rose'.

[Kabooa]

@Kabooa I legitimately hadn't thought about consuming mana for support buffs, and I like the idea. I am a little unclear on how the Impact change would work.

Did not see this edit.

Effectively, the Impact suggested in my post way back there has it working like this.

If Red Mage started a fight with VerAero -> VerThunder, then the spell prior to casting Impact is 'VerThunder'.

Impact would then generate black mana and provide the Black Mana generation buff.

If the Red Mage string was Jolt -> VerAero, Melee Combo into VerHoly, then the last spell used is 'VerHoly', and Impact would give its effect based on that.

The various effects were spitballed, and in the grand scheme of things, a few other knobs and levers would need to be turned and pulled were such a thing to come into play.