How would you make RDM more complex?

[PrismaticDaybreak]

That's simply not a viable option, you may like it simple but a very large portion of RDM's are going to be upset if it has no mechanical changes from one expansion to the next. Not to mention, that's not a real idea, tbh that's just complacent.

[Almandaragal]

I wouldn't, not at current cap. It's already been noted, but part of the "point" of the class is not to be overly complex. As someone who mained BLM through 4.0, and frankly would still love to play BLM, I enjoy RDM. However, my non-optimal machine (graphics card, really) neuters me as a BLM even ignoring that the current game setup makes it abundantly clear that BLM is low-tier useful.

There are plenty of buttons and ways to go about things, and skills to optimize (like fitting two melee combos into a single embolden, even if it's pointless with the tiny boost by the end) currently in RDM, but it's not all absolutely required to keep managed down to the second like it nearly is with, say, BLM. I understand that the gap is apparently pretty big on SMN too, but I only have experience with BLM, so I'll keep my comparisons there.

Sure, the rotation is fairly simple, sorta. To explain it via flowchart looks like a nightmare, but in practice it's basically a small series of if/then statements. However, that doesn't mean that we need to artificially inflate complexity just for the sake of doing so. Expand it next expansion? Sign me up. I don't know how they plan to deal with button bloat, since some skills will straight up need to be obsolete for many classes at higher levels or we won't have room for the buttons, but I'm not opposed to things getting slightly more complex on RDM-- as part of the natural progression, not just for kicks and giggles.

Right now? What I'd rather see on RDM is Impact(ful) being a proc of Jolt II and taking up the same button, like the melee skills. Right now it wastes another button space despite not even being available without the proc, which makes no sense. At least Fire III on BLM is available to use otherwise and just procs for no cost, but there is no such benefit/potential other use with RDM and Impactful. Likewise, Embolden should just affect both Magic and Physical for all. If I have to be nearby and the effect is reduced every 4 seconds, utility might as well be proper for such limitations. So really, if anything, basics of RDM could use slightly less "complexity", at least until the natural time to get more complex is here. Doing just because though? I don't see a good reason for it at the present time.

[TarynH]

That's simply not a viable option, you may like it simple but a very large portion of RDM's are going to be upset if it has no mechanical changes from one expansion to the next. Not to mention, that's not a real idea, tbh that's just complacent.

It's not complacency. Complacency would be saying you want no changes to anything ever. I stated it would be wiser to spend more time on the jobs that need it, and give RDM very few changes. RDM was meant to be simple and fun. It's simple and fun. So the old adage of, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," applies to the job.

As it stands right now, RDM is fine where it's at; for what it is. It doesn't need "mechanical" changes. You also assume a lot, in that they need to change every job with every expansion. Job gauges aside, most jobs changed very little with 4.0, while a few didn't really change at all. Only one had a complete overhaul. So you're rushing to conclusions a little here too.

Yes, it might get a few changes. Or they could just simply add tiers of spells and traits, with one ability/spell at 80. (Assuming they even raise the level cap.) I really don't care, as far as that goes. As long as it stays RDM. I, for one, am perfectly happy with the basic concepts of the job, and don't want to see it become overly complex. So excuse me when I see you write things like "mechanical changes," and "maintenance buffs;" and it gets me thinking you just want the job to have busy work to fit your personal needs and levels of excitement.

And I also don't care if you "don't want a discussion." Writing that does not make your thread the Holy Grail, behind an untouchable glass case. If others don't want to see RDM changed, they're entitled to voice that opinion on here. Especially in a thread where one person wants to control the flow of the discussion like that, or suppress dissenting viewpoints. "Don't change RDM," is every bit as important as your asinine suggestions in the OP.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Where exactly is your dev testimonial about how simple it's supposed to be? Unless You personally designed RDM I wouldn't deign to make that claim. You said no changes beyond tier spells which aren't actual changes. I didn't say it needed a complete overhaul nor did I say it needed to be overly complex. In fact I specifically stated i didn't want that. Most jobs in 4.0 changed the additional mechanics almost all of them received in 3.0 or added them if they didn't already have them. My suggestions were far from asinine whereas your, "Waah I want it to stay overtly simple," argument ended with 'well play a different class lol'. I don't want a discussion with, yes complacent, people like yourself. It's not controlling discussion I literally didn't want to engage with you in any way but now you've gone and messed up the thread with your pointless panic crusade. If any easy to maintain buff like the one I suggested or either of the long cooldowns I suggested are too complex for you I'm extremely skeptical of your critical thinking skills.

Let me be perfectly clear here, I don't have some dastardly intention to deceive what devs gather as feedback. I don't want to convince everyone that complexity is the only viable option. I literally have 0 to say to the people that want to keep it simple because they're not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince them so why waste the effort on something I don't care about? Plainly the intention was to drum up some interesting ideas about how to add complexity to RDM not fritter away my time with whether or not I should. You're the one controlling discussion. You immediately derailed the topic with the other two in the span of 2 minutes and you could've kept browsing. The onus is on you.

[Neela]

And I didn't "attack." Get over yourself. I stated an opinion, and you called me out. Thus dragging out the conversation to this point, despite you "not wanting a discussion." Simple as that.

Especially in a thread where one person wants to control the flow of the discussion like that, or suppress dissenting viewpoints. "Don't change RDM Blm does not need a res," is every bit as important as your asinine suggestions in the OP.

this sounds so fck familiar, right Llugen? ;'3

@topic the least complicated way to give them a kind of variety without loosing the base-simplicity are alternative melee-combos or combo-finisher - leaving the base- & proc mechanic as it is. Imo : /

[TarynH]

this sounds so fck familiar, right Llugen? ;'3

Who's Llugen, and do you think about them often?