How would you make RDM more complex?

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Yeah except the things I suggested aren't the most blatantly horrible things I've ever seen. Just look at how useless Sleep is in the game anyway. There's going to be additions, you might as well give them ideas for which buttons you want to press and how often. Note with a maintenance buff there aren't more buttons to press, with more spenders like the ones I proposed that's one or two buttons at most every minute or two for a little bit of optimization. You're exaggerating and making it seem like that literally any nuance added is going to make RDM into SMN-junior. There's literally 5 things they can do in the space of one expansion to each class if they stick to the one trait/action per 2 levels for 10 levels pattern. One of them is easily going to just be Verfire/Stone II and Verthunder/Aero II. They might even give us two traits and give us Jolt III and Impact II.

[Ceallach]

We could use more area attacks than Scatter and Moulinet. How about new spells that work off of Enhanced Scatter? For example, let's say the next expansion raises the level cap to 80.

Level 72: Scattershot
Trait
Improves chance of acquiring Enhanced Scatter from casting Scatter to 50%.

Level 75: Verwater
Spell
MP Cost: equal to Impact
Potency: 150 water
Range: 25 yalms, hits target and all enemies within a 5-yalm radius of target
Requires Enhanced Scatter to be cast. All enemies hit take 30 potency water damage over time for 21 seconds. Grants 5 white mana. 25% chance of granting the caster Enhanced Scatter.

Level 78: Verblizzard
Spell
MP Cost: equal to Impact
Potency: 200 ice
Range: 25 yalms, hits target and all enemies within a 5-yalm radius of target
Requires Enhanced Scatter to be cast. All enemies other than the first two hit do 5% less damage for 10 seconds. Grants 5 black mana. 25% chance of granting the caster Enhanced Scatter.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

We could use more area attacks than Scatter and Moulinet. How about new spells that work off of Enhanced Scatter? For example, let's say the next expansion raises the level cap to 80.

Level 72: Scattershot
Trait
Improves chance of acquiring Enhanced Scatter from casting Scatter to 50%.

Level 75: Verwater
Spell
MP Cost: equal to Impact
Potency: 150 water
Range: 25 yalms, hits target and all enemies within a 5-yalm radius of target
Requires Enhanced Scatter to be cast. All enemies hit take 30 potency water damage over time for 21 seconds. Grants 5 white mana. 25% chance of granting the caster Enhanced Scatter.

Level 78: Verblizzard
Spell
MP Cost: equal to Impact
Potency: 200 ice
Range: 25 yalms, hits target and all enemies within a 5-yalm radius of target
Requires Enhanced Scatter to be cast. All enemies other than the first two hit do 5% less damage for 10 seconds. Grants 5 black mana. 25% chance of granting the caster Enhanced Scatter.

So would the MO here be to do Scatter->Scatter then Verblizzard->Verwater (or Vice Versa) until you had to return to Scatter->Scatter? I like the suggestion it just seems like making it also operate off of Enhanced Scatter would require a very fast reaction time to use Scatter->Verwater/Verblizzard or Verblizzard->Verwater. I want to clarify that my tone here is purely inquiring, I feel like I'm coming off snarky.

[Shurrikhan]

We could use more area attacks than Scatter and Moulinet. How about new spells that work off of Enhanced Scatter? For example, let's say the next expansion raises the level cap to 80.

Level 72: Scattershot
Trait
Improves chance of acquiring Enhanced Scatter from casting Scatter to 50%.

Level 75: Verwater
Spell
MP Cost: equal to Impact
Potency: 150 water
Range: 25 yalms, hits target and all enemies within a 5-yalm radius of target
Requires Enhanced Scatter to be cast. All enemies hit take 30 potency water damage over time for 21 seconds. Grants 5 white mana. 25% chance of granting the caster Enhanced Scatter.

Level 78: Verblizzard
Spell
MP Cost: equal to Impact
Potency: 200 ice
Range: 25 yalms, hits target and all enemies within a 5-yalm radius of target
Requires Enhanced Scatter to be cast. All enemies other than the first two hit do 5% less damage for 10 seconds. Grants 5 black mana. 25% chance of granting the caster Enhanced Scatter.

But does this actually increase complexity in any way? Granted I'd need to know what Verblizzard's actual damage and effect on the first two targets are, but without significant situational variance this seems like more of the braindead categoricals (more a matter of bloat than options) scorned on the first page.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

But does this actually increase complexity in any way? Granted I'd need to know what Verblizzard's actual damage and effect on the first two targets are, but without significant situational variance this seems like more of the braindead categoricals (more a matter of bloat than options) scorned on the first page.

Considering it's AoE focused and our current AoE is the same button for most of a fight then a second one for 4.5 seconds, I'd probably put it closer to complexity, particularly if it also consumes Enhanced Scatter since the likelihood of wasted procs (and therefore wasted DPS) increases a bit making AoE something to actively pay attention to rather than pressing the same button one handed and browsing Reddit on my phone with the other.

[Jukebox12]

I am pretty sure that if white mage cannot do water damage spells red mage wouldn't.

[Dualgunner]

I am pretty sure that if white mage cannot do water damage spells red mage wouldn't.

Fluid Aura.

[Ceallach]

So would the MO here be to do Scatter->Scatter then Verblizzard->Verwater (or Vice Versa) until you had to return to Scatter->Scatter? I like the suggestion it just seems like making it also operate off of Enhanced Scatter would require a very fast reaction time to use Scatter->Verwater/Verblizzard or Verblizzard->Verwater. I want to clarify that my tone here is purely inquiring, I feel like I'm coming off snarky.

OH I REMEMBER YOU YOU'RE THAT ONE GUY

Don't worry, bro, I got you.

The idea here would be fast reaction time to try to use Enhanced Scatter for Verwater or Verblizzard, so you'd ideally go Scatter/Verwater, Scatter/Verblizzard, or Verblizzard/Verwater. I think I made Verwater too strong, honestly, but this is the basic idea.

But does this actually increase complexity in any way? Granted I'd need to know what Verblizzard's actual damage and effect on the first two targets are, but without significant situational variance this seems like more of the braindead categoricals (more a matter of bloat than options) scorned on the first page.

The effect on the first two targets is literally everything except for the damage decrease. I didn't want the area attack rotation to be abused against raid bosses. ^^;

I thought SE's stated direction was to try and make the jobs less complex. This seems to be going against that idea of simplification.

Yes, but not all players agree with that stance.