SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

[shao32]

I hit a 23K DhC defiance thrill unchained berserk slashing eye Upheaval.

23k? so this is the new fell cleave?, it will be fun if the new meta involved defiance on

[Ekimmak]

23k? so this is the new fell cleave?, it will be fun if the new meta involved defiance on

Not while Unchained's cooldown is hooked to Inner Releases.

The what started this discussion was talking about how Unchained would become worth swapping into Defiance for, from a DPS standpoint, and that removing the cooldown link isn't QoL, it's a buff.

[shao32]

Not while Unchained's cooldown is hooked to Inner Releases.

The what started this discussion was talking about how Unchained would become worth swapping into Defiance for, from a DPS standpoint, and that removing the cooldown link isn't QoL, it's a buff.

i know i know, im just surprise how upheaval can get such numbers, i know how can easily war can become OP again if they do that, they are actually the ones how pay less on dps for the swaps, unchained will be pretty huge.

for one side if they release unchained it will make defiance more playable and inner beast being a option again, will make WAR a true stance dance tank, but on the other hand they will need at minimun eliminate grit and shield damage penalty or make somehow avoid they damage penalty temporaly too to match this change, and i dont see SE doing that with how they "love" PLD and DRK

anyway in 2 days we will know, and i hope SE dont make WAR so powerfull with those "changes"

[Chrono_Rising]

Not while Unchained's cooldown is hooked to Inner Releases.

The what started this discussion was talking about how Unchained would become worth swapping into Defiance for, from a DPS standpoint, and that removing the cooldown link isn't QoL, it's a buff.

Exactly, of course very important to keep in mind this is a very hypothetical conversation as well.

[Aana]

Upheaval has been double dipping since day 1. ToB raises Upheaval damage by roughly 1.2. What youd expect for a 20% increase in HP. a 25% increase in defiance however provides MORE damage than deliverance+ToB which means the 20% tank stance is not being applied.

If tank stance damage reduction were being applied:
Deliverance HP: 100 (upheaval damage 100%)
Deliverance+ToB hp: 120 (upheaval damage 120%)
Defiance HP: 125 (Upheaval damage 125%)
Tank Penalty: 125*0.8=100 (upheaval damage 100%)

This is what you would expect reading the tooltip and testing deliverance and deliverance+toB. But its not what happens. Defiance upheavals are HIGHER than Deliverance+ToB upheavals.

For whatever reason SE pulled a Bloodspiller on Upheaval and somehow boosted its damage in tank stance enough to negate the tank stance penalty. But they didn't just give it the inner beast treatment that ignores the penalty. Therefore unchained still buffs it further.

I imagine they did it for consistency sake. It would be pretty darn unintuitive if the tooltip reads

*"Damage increases with hp, haha just kidding it doesn't change when your primary way of raising HP"

It was obviously intended to be stronger in defiance, but ran out of space to try to say "HP scaling, costs gauge, has different base potency text like bloodspiller in defiance but still scales with HP" It would be really long and awkward. So they tried to simplify it. HP goes up, damage goes up. Period. My guess anyway.

Upheaval has been a shining jewel of defiance since stormblood shipped. The tooltip is misleading. It more closely mirrors bloodspiller's interactions with tank stance than anything else.
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As for hypothetical unchained buff, I like the idea because I really miss using that skill. It was a uniquely 'War' thing and, while it still exists, the trivialization of enmity and the binding to a better DPS option renders it unusable beyond early progression in my experience. Either buffing it to compete with inner release in its own right or separating them are both massive buffs. Fun buffs. But big ones. War would have to get scaled back in some way to account for all that. But I do like the theme of the skill for war and was sad to see it fall off. You'd have to rework a lot to make it work now. Just save it for the next expac if you ask me.

[RamzaRuglia]

Doesn't look like they really wanted to reveal specific changes for any of the classes. I would have liked to have a better idea of what exactly they were looking at in terms of "adjustments".

[Mycow8me]

My biggest concern is a large rotation change going into new content. Looks like warriors may have to relearn a new good rotation and even possibly new burst rotation at the same time. Personally anything that helps with the doubleweaving on DRK would be enough for me but I can't see how they would make any kind of large rotation change...

[Aana]

My biggest concern is a large rotation change going into new content. Looks like warriors may have to relearn a new good rotation and even possibly new burst rotation at the same time. Personally anything that helps with the doubleweaving on DRK would be enough for me but I can't see how they would make any kind of large rotation change...

Yeah, I dont really see how you can 'adjust' beast gauge, IR, and Zerk all at once without impacting rotations and associated gameplay. That's before we have to account for fine tuning tweaks like allowing Eye to fall off for a GCD or 2 in order to get another patch for gauge in some scenarios because the eye buff is less powerful and could be allowed to fall.

Looks like I'll have some homework crunch time to be ready to raid with my group.

[BluexBird]

If the only change they made was make IR lower de cost of Upheaval and Onslaught, but have Fell Cleave cost 50 points with doubled potency:

HS (Infuriate) -> Maim -> Eye
HS -> Maim (IR+Zerk) -> Fell Cleave (Onslaught) -> Path (Upheaval)
HS -> Maim -> Path -> Fell Cleave

We're then left with a few seconds on the clock for Inner Release after which we Onslaught before it wears off, but we'll start building points back sooner and Storm's Eye won't have a chance to wear off. Another advantage is that there's no way to fuck up and miss a last FC and end up with unusable points.

We'll get to start building up points 2 GCDs earlier.

[Aana]

Well......seems the war changes were COMPLETELY outta left field. I don't know how to feel about these. They chose such a strange direction to go in.

*IR/Zerk Merged into 1
Recast 90sec.
Duration 10.
Removes Gauge costs
All hits Crit/DR 100%.

*IR/Unchained timers split.
IR usable in defiance.
Unchained 90sec recast

*Drg treatment: Eye buffs 20 to 10%. Every damage action up 5-10% potency.

The only thing that was expected was the Drg thing. The rest of this.....I don't even know.