Thread: [Spoilers] The Patch 4.2 Discussion and Speculation Thread!

I also seriously doubt that Garlemald is genuinely interested in forming an alliance with anyone.

If anything, I think it's a trick to try to get the authorities of Othard and Eorzea together so they can eliminate them, but I'd like to hope they aren't that gullible and fully expect such a thing.

Originally Posted by Belhi

However we do have that dialog when we see Krile that goes along the lines of:

"While I dare not give myself wholly to hope, I will not deny that I have prayed for such a miracle ever since that fateful day."

Putting those words over Krile's appearance seems like a misdirection to me, since the voice that said it (and the bound by duty line that follows) belongs to Yugiri, which would seem to suggest she's talking about Gosetsu.

Originally Posted by KageTokage

I also seriously doubt that Garlemald is genuinely interested in forming an alliance with anyone.

I get the sense that Varis is being pragmatic here (if he's not being manipulated into this by Elidibus) - the Empire's previous attempts at ridding Hydaelyn of the Eikon threat have not exactly worked out the way they wanted, and here is the WoL doing a rather good job (usually) of it without needing to drop small moons on anyone or risk lives and resources to eradicate groups of beast tribes or subjugate nations. With the potential threat of further rebellion (a concern that, although not necessarily an actual threat, is one that has been actively cultivated by the Shinobi, as mentioned by Yugiri) in other provinces, engaging in further resource intensive campaigns is ultimately less attractive than seeking an alliance with the most effective "primal problem solver" currently on Hydaelyn.

There are, of course, possible ulterior motives at play - if he is in fact being manipulated into it by Elidibus, then it could be the start of putting us into position for some greater nefarious goal (using us as the template for more resonant springs to mind, or fostering a situation than can be twisted into a betrayal, and thus more conflict, playing right into the hands of what the Ascians generally want as they seek to weaken Hydaelyn and break the boundaries between the Source and the other worlds).

And then there's always the possibility (as was partially the case with Solus) that he legitimately wants the Eikon threat dealt with because it's not good for Hydaelyn...but I'm still curious about his motives here. With Solus, his ambition to conquer beyond Ilsabard predated his drive to eradicate the Eikons (and I don't trust the idea that the latter goal wholly replaced the former goal). It was in the course of conquering Othard that he first saw the havoc such a being could wreak, and it was then that it became an important part of their overall goals.

With Varis, while he has professed a similar goal (with similarly ruthless methods, as we saw in HW with Bismarck and the Vundu/Gundu situation), I don't know if we know if he holds the same "must conquer" ambition that Solus held. Basically, is the goal to remove the Eikon threat just for the good of the planet, or is it also to remove a major obstacle to further expansion?

If only Brutus had another friend to help him in his plans... say, someone called Gaius.

Just a small doubt I have. Are the other FF bosses you fight tied to the lore(wibbly wobbly timey wimey thingy) or is just "Here's Exdeath"?

I think people are a bit too quick to rule out the possibility that Varis wants an alliance. After all the Scions have resources (such as the WoL) that he doesn't. Even Regula made a point of people with the echo being important. That doesn't mean he is trustworthy or his endgame co-insides with ours but he seems to see the Eikons as a major threat. A couple of border provinces are probably low on his list of things that are important compared to that. Its also worth noting that the emissary is here investigating if an alliance is feasible. There is no way the Emperor would come to a hostile country in person.

I think this is probably going to be the beginnings of our 'in' when it comes to traveling to Garlemald. A strong dose of distrust all around is probably for the best because we will almost certainly be heading into a political quagmire. However I think that in this case Varis is actually serious in seeking an alliance. He might stab us in the back later if he feels it is in the interests of Garlemald to do so but for now I think he desires our resources. After all do remember he could have easily let Zenos of the leash at any time. If Zenos had permission to invade Eorzea we quite likely would have had a very different outcome to the war.

Originally Posted by Theodric

As a random aside, I can't help but wonder if the bosses in Omega are influenced by Nero having meddled with Omega back when it was stationed in Carteneau. After all, I believe at least one of the first bosses was associated with a Garlean tale. The Phantom Train and Kefka seem like they would be prime candidates to also fit Garlean tales, too.

Halicarnassus is based on a Garlean folktale that Nero happens to be aware of. The text in her instance summary says she's an antagonist from a classical novel where she rules as the Queen of Dimension Castle. Exdeath's instance summary says he's a villain from an ancient legend and the legend said he is an evil tree that takes the form of a dark mage. Whether or not that is Garlean or not is never specified. Alte Roit and Catastrophe's origins aren't specified anywhere as far as I can tell.

As far as I could tell, Nero has been researching Omega for quite a while by the time he brings it up as a way to combat Shinryu. He's just never turned it on until then. It's anyone's guess as to whether Omega was checking him out the whole time, but I can certainly buy that Nero is the person who's been around Omega the most in "recent" times.

I think Varis is extending an olive branch to the WoL since Zenos' Resonance project failed. Or, not so much failed, but left Varis with no control over people who have the Resonance (as far as we've seen anyway). If it had worked and Zenos had overcome us, then Varis would have had his fake-Echo users to work with (pressure into) taking down whatever eikons there are around. Instead, we're pretty much free of his direct power/influence and that's a situation he probably doesn't want to continue. At least until he manages to get another Resonant up and running...

Speaking of talking down eikons... what eikons/primals are around that Varis is worried about? This isn't like the Warring Triad where Theoden all but said he was absorbing existing primals' power at the end of the expansion and then we spent the reset of the patches dealing with them. 'Cause given the characterization the Scions and WoL have been given so far, we'd probably figure out a way to get to any primal that happened to be out regardless of who the primal is directly threatening. It's not like we need alliances in place to have reason to do that.

I'm thinking that the whole alliance Varis is proposing will be framed like a hypothetical for when a primal is summoned. With the goal that when a primal is summoned someplace that isn't in Garlemald, Varis gets to have some sort of influence on how the Scions deal with the situation. Probably in exchange for not giving the Scions trouble if they have to deal with a primal that is in Garlemald. With lots of fine print for both situations. Having influence on what the WoL can get up to would be great for him.

The other scenario I could see is that there's a lot of primal summoning going on that the Scions don't know about because it's in Garlean territory. And Varis needs somebody to deal with it. And with the Resonance project in shambles, he's run out of options. How the Scions could figure out if he isn't lying is up for debate (his censorship working against him). And who knows what he would do after the situation is dealt with... Thing is, there's no reason the Scions and WoL wouldn't want to deal with that kind of situation even if it was a bad deal.

Also, I don't think the Four Lords are primals from what we've seen of them so far. So I don't think whatever alliance Varis is proposing is about dealing with them.

Speaking of looking at all the puzzle peices and not just the ones we just got, I wonder what the Garlean NCPs on the Prima Vista will think about all this. The entire reason they are in Kugane is because they're running from Varis (well, his policies). I'll be very interested to see if their dialogue changes at all for this patch.