Could we get a change to Hyoton (PvE)?

[Eloah]

Out of curiosity why is no one saying the simplest solution there could be... A DoT. I forgot someone made that statement already. But my DoT idea is a bit different.

Hyoton could easily be reworked to place a low level long duration DoT on a single target that would be of similar or equal potency to Fuma and Raiton and still "fit" into the rotation since its not something you'd have to reapply every chance you get. It may seem "low" but what about keeping the initial hit of 140 then applying a DoT of 10 potency for 60 seconds, that adds an additional 200 to the initial 140 making the total 340, which is "on par" with Raiton at 360. This allows the skill to be useful in longer battles, like boss fights, doesn't interrupt the flow of the basic rotation, as it would be every 3rd Ninjutsu; Kassatsu and Hide aside, and it doesn't prioritize it over others, as for shorter fights you'd know you don't need it and for longer fights you know it will help with damage in the background. Seems like the best solution to me. Anyone else?

[wereotter]

The DOT idea isn’t bad, but I feel like considering how they pruned skills this expansion, they’re likely trying to move away from them.

Another idea might be giving it the same effect as Armor Crush. That would make level 50 instances less frustrating to go back to, and give the ninja a second way to extend Huton if they can’t be in melee range.

[Eloah]

I can't say they are moving away from DoTs entirely, it just seems like they are adding them to skills that already do damage, unless the Job is an actual DoT job. And out of 15 jobs we have, only 3 are DoT jobs, and 2 of them got a prune... granted they are the "same" class but still.

[Sylvain]

The problem I see with the dot is that it adds nothing to the job and doesn't make the skill more interesting.
It would just replace raiton when needed and that's it.

I'd rather see it turned into some kind of utility skill (which would arguably not be needed since Nin already has so much).

[RezPlz]

Keep the damage the same. Instead of bind give it a leech effect for a percentage of damage done.

Makes soloing a bit easier, and may have a niche role in progression without giving nin more utility.

[RenOkamiya]

The problem I see with the dot is that it adds nothing to the job and doesn't make the skill more interesting.
It would just replace raiton when needed and that's it.

I disagree, it would allow to have uptime when we are not in melee range, or when on an other target. Plus, you could refresh it at range which is a huge thing I think. It would be original on a melee to have something like that and not just sitting 300 miles away and be like "welp, fuck my uptime I guess".
I personnaly regret the old times when we had a oGCD Dot that you could apply before leaving the boss for some random mecanic.

[Sylvain]

I disagree, it would allow to have uptime when we are not in melee range, or when on an other target. Plus, you could refresh it at range which is a huge thing I think. It would be original on a melee to have something like that and not just sitting 300 miles away and be like "welp, fuck my uptime I guess".
I personnaly regret the old times when we had a oGCD Dot that you could apply before leaving the boss for some random mecanic.

This is a very valid point

What if Hyoton would enhance your daguer throw ability then (i really don't like the DoT idea)

[KasaiTaiyome]

What if Hyoton would enhance your daguer throw ability then (i really don't like the DoT idea)

This one sounds interesting too. Could you elaborate?

[Sylvain]

This one sounds interesting too. Could you elaborate?

Well, I really don't like the idea of giving a DoT to everyone. More job sharing same mechanic means each mechanic is less interesting. A DoT, if it has no interaction with anything remais a boring skill you press once everytime needed

However, the argument that DoT have the benefit of ticking when you're out of melee range is a rather valide one and it is in fact something that could be expanded on.
But instead of a DoT passively ticking I was thinking of something more active.

What I had in mind would be Hyoton would either debuff the target or buff yourself, the debuff/buff would enhance your throw daguer ability making it do significant more damage (never enough to be considered part of the main melee rotation in any given circomstance)

This would make the spell a situational yet powerful tool for when you need to go out of melee for an extensive period of time.

Something like this (debuff version)

Hyoton: Delivers ice damage with a potency of 140 and apply Hyoton.
Hyoton (debuff) : Throw daguer deal 50% more damage and grant 5 Ninki. Last 20sec

Each time a Throw Daguer would hit the target we could have some shattering ice effect poping on the boss ^^


This is a situational skill that could still be extremely useful on some fight where you need to be at range for an extended period of time.

With a long enough duration this could safely be used ahead of time as you anyway are rarely more than 5-10sec away from the boss.

Obviously, in order to compensate for Raiton, the Hyoton debuff would need to inflict at least 220 potency.

Hellfrog having 5 potency per Ninki, we have:

3 throw daguer (boosted by 50%, it would grant60 bonus potency) gives 180 potency and 15ninki (so 75 Frog Potency)

So if you spend at least 3 GCD over 15sec doing Throw Daguer, you gain 35 potency over Raiton.
Going on from the fourth daguer, this is pure dps gain.

3-4 seem to be about what you could weave in most fight while doing the at range mechanic.

On top of that, this has the great advantage of not changing the regular rotatition or artificially making the spell useful or part of the main melee rotation.

[Eloah]

While I think the DoT idea is still best, I mean Doton is an AoE DoT, why not a single target, I like Sylvain's idea, though it might need a slight adjustment.

Maybe we are looking at this from the wrong angle. The only reason anyone uses Suiton is so they can use Trick Attack, otherwise why bother right. Trick Attack is the useful skill here not Suiton. Maybe we need to buff a different skill and not Hyoton.

For instance, Assassinate, nice oGCD damage that is available when the target's HP is below 20%, and has a 40 second CD, so its not like its "always" available. What if it got a buff that made it crit if the target was suffering from the status Hyoton? It could maybe bypass the 20% limitation too, but not crit; though not sure if that would be a DPS gain or loss, 340 total potency in 2.5 seconds around so not so bad I guess. But also you'd need the status on you not them? It could be mirrored statuses but that feels more convoluted. Anyway...

Try this:

Hyoton: Deals ice damage to the target with a potency of 140
Additional Effect: Bind
Duratiin: 15s
Additional Effect: Inflicts target with Hyoton
Duration: 10s

Assassinate: Delivers an attack with a potency of 200
Can only be executed when target's HP is below 20%
Additional effect: Deals critical damage if target is inflicted with Hyoton.