Could we get a change to Hyoton (PvE)?

[Ash_]

It used to be amazing in PVP before the 4.0 changes. For PVE I used it occasionally for solo content, particularly back in the job quests for breathing room.

And I suppose that's where it is still somewhat useful in group content; when things go south and the heals (if they're alive) or the rest of the group need a mob bound to a spot to give everyone a chance recover.

Otherwise meh; it can stay as is. We have enough in our rotation already, and I prefer for them to stop bloody touching NIN every patch.

[Alistaire]

It used to be amazing in PVP before the 4.0 changes.

Yeah, the pvp changes have certainly opened this up; if this was posted before the separation of skills it'd just be "no, absolutely do not change this because pvp".

As for pve changes there's still the chance someone trying to push the limits of potd soloing would want hyoton kept as is.

And as far as "boosting it while nerfing something else", that would be fixing something that ain't broke. Making hyoton useful at the expense of something else would make it an extra part of the rotation for no benefit.

[Zojha]

And as far as "boosting it while nerfing something else", that would be fixing something that ain't broke. Making hyoton useful at the expense of something else would make it an extra part of the rotation for no benefit.

Or would it?
Let's look at the beginning of Ninja.

You start out with Spinning Edge and since that is the only skill at the time, you can dump all the power a Ninja is supposed to have into it. And that works. But you might think that only one button gets a little boring over time, so you want to add another skill to the repertoire - Gust Slash. Since all the power you want a Ninja to have is already in Spinning Edge however, you cannot make Gust Slash stronger, so it goes unused. You have two abilities but still a one-button gameplay.

How do you get out of it? With just the process I just outlined. You do not want people to ignore Spinning Edge, but you also do not want Gust Slash to go unused, so you make Gust Slash stronger only if it follows Spinning Edge and draw that power from Spinning Edge so that the whole remains the same. And whenever you add a new skill to the kit of Ninja, because you might think even 2 buttons isn't the most engaging thing in the world, you either increase the power budget a ninja might have (like expansions do) or you repeat that same process.

Except that now, you are coming along and saying:"This will just make Gust Slash an extra part of the Rotation for no benefit - That's fixing something that ain't broke."

On principle, I disagree with that mindset. It isn't fixing something that ain't broke, it is adding complexity, which may be a good or a bad thing depending on how engaging something already is - It can also go the other extreme and become overwhelming, which is just as bad as being overly simple. SE actually already felt that this was the case in HW and dialed down complexity as a result and that's probably the best argument one can bring if one doesn't want change: It's not in line with dev goals. They actually went the opposite way and removed abilities while funneling their power into other parts of the kit with SB and you may even think they didn't go far enough with that.

That all said: I still think that if you give Ninjas Hyoton, it shouldn't go as unused as it currently is. The uses it has are so few and far between that one is grasping for straws to even bring them up. It's not a pressing issue, but worth thinking about going forward - This baggage will be carried over to the next expansion and however many might follow after. I spitballed one possible way, but there are several others.