Real Solutions to PvP problems

[RiyahArp]

Not pointless 3.0 nostalgia.

Healers either need a potency down, or a mp cost up. Currently both are way too strong, especially in concert. Ideally healers should probably be less about direct heals and more about support or buffing, as healing in general in pvp is wearying even when OP and is more like tanking.

DPS need more defensive abilties to compensate. They are made out of paper, and often are the weak point in a match. Both individual abilities and group abilities are needed, the latter to balance out the roles a bit more. Or possibly, boosting attack when in concert. Currently DPS is just focusing a target and trying to get them to zero, with very little additional play. CC might be effective to distinguish them, but its hard to combine it with both dps stacking and high damage single abilities.

Tanks...well tanks are less about protecting, and more about being chunkier dps. I'm not qualified to speak much on them because I dislike the tank class in this game; it's essentially a dps class that uses cooldowns to soak damage. They are hard to balance in general.

We have two modes in game, small party competitive and large party casual. Feast/Frontlines.

-Feast in general is ok in structure, but suffers because healing takes far more responsibility and skill than the other classes. That is, healers have outsized impact on a match. They also tend to be the least numerous role, because healers in general tend to be carebear. I mean, you support the group. I think that they have to be nerfed, and responsibility spread out to all the other roles. Tanks should heal or shield more, DPS should cooldown or peel more. Currently its often 3v1 on both sides. Maybe ideally make it so that you can run without an actual healer instead; that is what made potd viable, and might speed up queues all around.

-Frontlines is actually decent. the problem is this game's "pvp community" will never treat it as a fun mode. If there is a winning strategy, no matter how cheap (spawn camping in seal rock, stacking one side in shatter, stacking heals in rw, mass cometeor spam in secure) it's going to happen. You are going to have to think of testing from the mindset of a rather nasty player, and look for ways they would break the mode down to achieve wins without hacking or cheating directly. Then its just whether or not its an acceptible loss. Spawn camping in seal rock sucked, but wasn't an ironclad win; the others though influenced much more directly. If its not possible, you may need to deemphasize rewards for wins to a small degree. An achievement that takes 100 wins or 1000 matches played is better than one that takes 100 wins-you still have big incentive to win and get it faster, but you arent frustrated if you constantly lose.

[Wintersandman]

-Frontlines is actually decent. the problem is this game's "pve community" will never treat it as a fun mode. If there is a winning strategy, no matter how cheap (spawn camping in seal rock, stacking one side in shatter, stacking heals in rw, mass cometeor spam in secure) it's going to happen. You are going to have to think of testing from the mindset of a rather nasty player, and look for ways they would break the mode down to achieve wins without hacking or cheating directly. Then its just whether or not its an acceptible loss. Spawn camping in seal rock sucked, but wasn't an ironclad win; the others though influenced much more directly. If its not possible, you may need to deemphasize rewards for wins to a small degree. An achievement that takes 100 wins or 1000 matches played is better than one that takes 100 wins-you still have big incentive to win and get it faster, but you arent frustrated if you constantly lose.

I fixed it for you. It is not the active PvP community that is doing these things you state.

[Zojha]

It is not the active PvP community that is doing these things you state.

Which is puzzling, since the PvE community has also been alleged to use bots, hacks, be utterly uncoordinated, clueless on strategy, averse to actually fighting players and not give a damn about winning in the first place. "Garo bois", they were called then.

Now the same community apparently is behind coordinating premade strategies to win. While still apparently having a defeatist fairweather mindset and wanting a surrender option for Rival Wings.

I know demonization is nice and all - I do that with healers myself, it's soul cleansing - but the stereotypes don't quite add up here. It's probably not as easy as "Them" (PvE community) and "Us" (PvP community).

[Wintersandman]

Now the same community apparently is behind coordinating premade strategies to win. While still apparently having a defeatist fairweather mindset and wanting a surrender option for Rival Wings. .

A: Why is a premade bad the game is designed to play with friends
B: I don't see any active (Longtime) PvP'er asking for a surrender option. The Active PvP community is saying they can turn the tides.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Which is puzzling, since the PvE community has also been alleged to use bots, hacks, be utterly uncoordinated, clueless on strategy, averse to actually fighting players and not give a damn about winning in the first place. "Garo bois", they were called then.

Now the same community apparently is behind coordinating premade strategies to win. While still apparently having a defeatist fairweather mindset and wanting a surrender option for Rival Wings.

I know demonization is nice and all - I do that with healers myself, it's soul cleansing - but the stereotypes don't quite add up here. It's probably not as easy as "Them" (PvE community) and "Us" (PvP community).

Looking back at all the "Garo Bois" that were trying, but were just unaware of what they were doing wrong, I retract anything bad I said about them. I place them higher than the fairweather folk that want to call it quits if they have to work harder, or even just THINK they can't win.

[Kei_]

I fixed it for you. It is not the active PvP community that is doing these things you state.

It's not the PVP Community?
Oh really so these 2 man 3 man gangs which is always the same character, match after match with each other from their base to tower and actively playing, Healer / Healer / BRD, as an example... are not part of the PVP community then? I think you will find you are mistaken. There are table grinding fools that exploit bad application of PVP Ballance to simply grind totes and get up that weekly and monthly table.

Those skill less fools are also part of the PVP community. Gimp the healers and they will no longer be an issue and dps wont need a buff as they wont have to fight against a healer for half an hour as they have infinite heals...

[Wintersandman]

snip.

Um... you do realize that the active pvp community doesn't really care to win or lose. They just go in for fun. Of course winning is preferable but they aren't the healer, healer, bard in astragalos. Those people are a flash in the pan representation of people just trying to get their mount and leave. Either that or they are grinding their exp and leaving. You can't gauge and active pvp'er just from astragalos release. Play for months and years and you will see who they are. But don't lump someone in because for a few weeks you see the same makeup.

[Mirch]

-Feast in general is ok in structure, but suffers because healing takes far more responsibility and skill than the other classes. That is, healers have outsized impact on a match. They also tend to be the least numerous role, because healers in general tend to be carebear. I mean, you support the group. I think that they have to be nerfed, and responsibility spread out to all the other roles. Tanks should heal or shield more, DPS should cooldown or peel more. Currently its often 3v1 on both sides. Maybe ideally make it so that you can run without an actual healer instead; that is what made potd viable, and might speed up queues all around.

healers far more responsible what? each member of your party weights the same. this is not moba sir, this is ffxiv, the roles work as they're intended, especially the healers. What feast would really need is that they revisit the medal system and the vulnerability medals tresholds, and dulcis in fundo either bring back chat or improve quickchat.

[RiyahArp]

mirch, if your healer can't keep themselves up during the match, you are either lucky and immediately retreat (losing your offense) or unlucky and another dps or worse, the tank, dies too. The healer is the easiest role to go wrong with the worst consequences, because it's the only role that affects others than themselves.

Third, don't be petty.

[Mirch]

mirch, if your healer can't keep themselves up during the match, you are either lucky and immediately retreat (losing your offense) or unlucky and another dps or worse, the tank, dies too. The healer is the easiest role to go wrong with the worst consequences, because it's the only role that affects others than themselves.

do you even heal in feast?
if dps and tanks dont do their job it's the same as losing with healer dead everytime, and how possibly other roles don't affect others? you ever tanked in feast? you know that tank toolkits are more than enough to provide both offensive and defensive support to your team, a tank that CCs enemies to help taking down someone or to give own's healer time to breath and lessen his pressure affects a lot the others, the whole team and the enemies as well, DPSes giving proper damage through peels and bursts affect their healers and their opponent healers.