What does it take to be considered a 'good' player?

[Baalfrog]

Yeah this is a game with a lot of players, so god forbid to let them have fun, while you sit here and think the only one who needs fun is yourself. Way to go.

Meanwhile in another universe...
Player: Hello GM! I'd like to report an offense!
GM: What is it?
Player: This guy is having fun wrong!
GM: Wrong how?
Player: By not agreeing with my rules on what is fun!
GM: I'm sorry had to deal with this, I will resolve the matter urgently, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

GM: Hello player 2, this is the fun police, I have been informed you are having fun wrong!
GM throws the offending player into GM jail.
Player 2: Excuse me?
GM: Yea, someone died and made that other guy the fun police, so these are the rules now. Have a great day, IN PRISON!

In all seriousness though, a great player also understands that they are not alone in the game and should also tolerate and understand other viewpoints and not dig their own bunkers and be like "OOOH you are not like me, thus i automatically hate you for not agreeing with me on this or that."

[DauthiHorror]

On the risk of derailing the topic, I still want to aks this question:

If you only knew who diamond orion is...you'd think differently.

Who ist this Diamond Orion? Some kind of celebrity?

I have, however, a comment on the topic as well:

This "Who you know" thing is really improtant, I think. Because if you're learning a class all by yourself, you can only come so far. Only with a proper "teacher" who is willing to invest some time and effort, one can reach greater hights, I think.

And by teacher I also mean someone, who visits hard content, even if you wipe. Someone, who is willing to practice with you and points out "your" flaws.
That, in essence, is also, what I think, what makes a "good" player.

[Jijifli]

Yeah this is a game with a lot of players, so god forbid to let them have fun, while you sit here and think the only one who needs fun is yourself. Way to go.

Yes, the point is to have fun and everyone should have fun.

BUT there are cases where you're trying to have your version of fun in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you're version of having fun is ONLY doing Dragon Kick on monk because the animation is cool to you, and you're in a random party with me and I'm trying to clear the dungeon, I think I have the place to go, "Not here." If you're in a private party and everyone's friends, I could care less. I'm not expecting some perfect player either. I just don't like this idea that if this one person's fun is done in a way that hurts the run, that their one fun is higher than the 3 funs from the other player.

[akaneakki]

Yes, the point is to have fun and everyone should have fun.BUT there are cases where you're trying to have your version of fun in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Excactly. Because some people spam blizzard 3 and then fire 3 in between the cast isn't something that contribute to the group nor does it make it fun for the rest. If they do it with their own friends however, I'm totally okay with it since they probably all agreed to it, so yes I agree with you too. And the last setence you said, I fully agree, that's what provoked me so much from that persons post too. They seem to ignore the rest and do fun for themselves...

In all seriousness though, a great player also understands that they are not alone in the game and should also tolerate and understand other viewpoints and not dig their own bunkers and be like "OOOH you are not like me, thus i automatically hate you for not agreeing with me on this or that."

I honestly like that people let me have fun while I let them have fun too. I don't mind if people are less skilled or whatever, because what matters to me is that they have fun and we actually get shit done. If we don't get shit done, thats a whole another story. And like jijfli said, if someone spams a certain skil just because they like it, they can do it somewhere else, not in my group.

[Gemina]

I really wish the OP would have worded it, "What do you consider to be a good player." Might have allowed many posters within to have their opinion without catching gripes. Maybe.

Anywho, my standards aren't very high. Just be respectful and polite. If you are respectful and polite, everything else falls into place. Simple as that. These players may not be the most skilled, but I don't care. It is far better than the complacency and dismissive behaviors I encounter from players who are really 'good' at the game. Respectful and polite players don't deliberately ruin the experience for others. Nothing brings players together more than sharing a struggle while being friendly and understanding. It leads to some of the most positive experiences the game has to offer.

In my experience, having a large list of standards only leads to a greater window for disappointment. I like to have fun. Even more so when others are also having a good time.

[akaneakki]

In my experience, having a large list of standards only leads to a greater window for disappointment. I like to have fun. Even more so when others are also having a good time.

Now if only many could share that mentality. Howver fun is a subject really, so for some people like farming fast runs etc is fun, while others like wiping every 3-4 runs and farm 5 mins longer. It all comes to the thing we say in norway; same minded kids play the games better together.

[Mimilu]

Good Player = They don't annoy me

[HyoMinPark]

I’ve opened this thread a few times to respond to it, but kept forgetting. However, now that all my papers and finals are complete for the semester:

I’ll preface with saying, I think that there are 3 types of “good players”, and I will list them below, with attributes that a person should have to be considered “good” in each of the categories. Players don’t have to have ALL of the attributes for me personally to consider them a “good player”. Apologies in advance if the post is a bit long.

“Good player” with regards to gameplay:
—Has a decent understanding of all three roles (tank, healer, and DPS); bonus points if they also have a decent understanding of DoH/DoL classes. Is able to deliver advice to sprouts in a very simple, understandable way.
—Has a very deep understanding of their main job; knows their rotation inside and out, and is able to successfully complete any and all content with it (barring Ultimate...I consider that an outlier in terms of content, so it’s not included here). The understanding can include the deeper theorycrafting aspects, but this is not mandatory, in my opinion. Is able to deliver thorough advice with regards to their main’s rotation and core gameplay mechanics to sprouts.
—Has a good understanding of their main job’s role, even if they do not know each job in the role as thoroughly as their main (e.g., healers have a decent understanding of all three healer jobs, and what makes each different from the others; melee DPS have a decent understanding of the melee jobs; etc.). This point could even be optional, as some people can be considered “good players” with regards to gameplay even if they only really play and understand one job in each role, but I personally feel a good player understands at least the basics of all the jobs in their specific role.
—Has an excellent understanding of all encounters in the game, and how to handle each of their mechanics; mechanics should be executed relatively flawlessly the majority of the time (some mess-ups are fine though; no one is capable of true perfection). This point I feel is very important with regards to gameplay.
—I don’t really want to bring up parses, since there are several factors that contribute to them, and several smaller factors that can be the difference between an orange and a purple, a purple and a blue, etc., but I feel like players who have orange parses and who were not catered to with regards to buffs (e.g., Balance-feeding) are good players in regards to gameplay.

“Good player” with regards to attitude/personality:
—Someone who is approachable and friendly.
—Someone who has a positive attitude whenever they approach something new or challenging.
—Someone who is patient with newer/other players, even when the newer/other players are those hostile “you don’t pay my sub” players.
—Someone who doesn’t give up when they’re faced with a difficult group or a difficult run.
—Delivers accurate advice in a nice, non-condescending way to sprouts.
—Is able to ask for and accept advice on jobs/roles that they are unfamiliar with, and do so gracefully.
—Someone who enters into debates/delivers advice in as objective a manner as possible, and who refrains from devolving into condescending remarks.

And, finally:

“Good player” with regards to both gameplay and attitude:
—Shares characteristics with both of the above mentioned categories.


I believe that there are people who fit into both categories (thereby, being in the third category); I also believe that there are people who fit into one, but not the other (e.g., is the nicest person in the world, but doesn’t have the best parses, or who doesn’t have a deep understanding of every job/role, or a 100th percentile raider who is just an absolute tool with regards to their personality). What’s considered “good” is an extremely subjective measure, and I’m not claiming my criteria/lists to be any sort of exhaustive measure. They’re just my opinions with regards to this topic that I kept forgetting to respond to. ;p

[mikanana]

- Play as a part of the team in other words play your ROLE.
- Stop being lazy and relying on others to get you far in the game (ie. work on your gear level and rotation, espicially if you are DPS)
- Know the goddamn strat. Seriously, I have played on the JP servers and English servers and the difference between them is that a lot of people in the English servers don't seem to care about reading strat causing so many wipes. Don't expect to clear a trial/dungeon on the first run if you have not read the strategy. Messing up many times can cause distress for the other party members who are playing according to strat.

[Tridus]

It all comes to the thing we say in norway; same minded kids play the games better together.

We have that saying on this side of the Atlantic too, but it doesn't apply very often to video games because of all the random matchmaking. It's very common in tabletop games like Dungeons & Dragons, because three intensive roleplayers and one murderhobo will not coexist peacefully in a single group.