Give Physical Ranged Dps knockback nullify ability

[CreinCrein]

Are we going to start giving range to melee weaponskills so they can keep 100% up-time while dodging iron chariots, grabbing dooms, doing neuro-links, + every other breakaway mechanic too? :thinking:

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Are we going to start giving range to melee weaponskills so they can keep 100% up-time while dodging iron chariots, grabbing dooms, doing neuro-links, + every other breakaway mechanic too? :thinking:

This is a strawman. If timed correctly, you won't lose any uptime dodging simply by knowing the range and timing when you back out. Regardless, the argument isn't about damage but the fact only three jobs out of fifteen have to "suck up" this one mechanic. It'd be a different argument if say, only Dragoon and Black Mage could cheese it due to Jumps and AM. But when twelve jobs have ways of completely negating a mechanic, and of the remaining three, one has a gap closer, I think it's fair for BRD/MCH to claim they want it too. I mean, back in Heavensward Dark Knight had the sole gap closer. Now Warrior has one. When Surecast made it so casters had to stop casting, the devs changed it at people's repeated requests. I don't see how the latter is any different than BRD/MCH saying they want a knock back immunity too.

[Kabzy]

But when twelve jobs have ways of completely negating a mechanic, and of the remaining three, one has a gap closer, I think it's fair for BRD/MCH to claim they want it too.

By those standards, each of the twelve jobs should also get complete mobility and near 100% DPS uptime in all situations. Your own argument can be thrown back at you, BRD/MCH already have a huge advantage with mobility. Also it should be pointed out that not all jobs can negate all movement based mechanics. A PLD, for example, cannot use Tempered Will on both pushbacks on Exdeath.

[Dualgunner]

By those standards, each of the twelve jobs should also get complete mobility and near 100% DPS uptime in all situations. Your own argument can be thrown back at you, BRD/MCH already have a huge advantage with mobility. Also it should be pointed out that not all jobs can negate all movement based mechanics. A PLD, for example, cannot use Tempered Will on both pushbacks on Exdeath.

It'd be a different argument if say, only Dragoon and Black Mage could cheese it due to Jumps and AM.

"Everyone else has something, phys ranged should have something too" and "Only two jobs have something, everybody else should have that something" are completely different arguments and one can't be used to negate the other.

What I do know is our bard is the only person in my static who gets blown back by every vacuum wave, and the only person who has no direct answer for Tidal Wave. It's an annoyance for the whole party to have to accommodate for. Does it break the game? Not at all--but that doesn't mean it's not annoying.

[Vivi_Bushido]

"Everyone else has something, phys ranged should have something too" and "Only two jobs have something, everybody else should have that something" are completely different arguments and one can't be used to negate the other.

What I do know is our bard is the only person in my static who gets blown back by every vacuum wave, and the only person who has no direct answer for Tidal Wave. It's an annoyance for the whole party to have to accommodate for. Does it break the game? Not at all--but that doesn't mean it's not annoying.

Agreed 100%

They're two completely different arguments and is purely a QoL add on, not a game changing feature.

[kikix12]

Agreed 100%

They're two completely different arguments and is purely a QoL add on, not a game changing feature.

Maybe they should just remove knockback, huh?!...Yeah...no.

Honestly, casters are the only ones that can reliably negate knockbacks. Surecast have only 30sec cooldown and 5sec up-time. Paladins skill have 180sec cooldown and 10sec up-time. The skill is so weak in comparison, that I would honestly prefer it to be changed into something entirely different because of that insane cooldown. In terms of melee, it's still 60sec for 5sec up-time, but at least have slow effect added (which won't really matter against bosses).

In case of melee and casters, anti-knockback evens out the odds a little bit against the ranged. Melee don't have to waste time on movement while casters don't waste their spells in the middle of the cast. Ranged, simply speaking, are scarcely affected. Generally it's nothing that positioning (which costs them nothing) can't solve.

Classes are supposed to have strengths and weaknesses based entirely on their role. Casters have the glaring weakness of cast times. Melee the weakness of having to be near. And ranged?!...Eh...yeah?! Right...And you want to remove the slightest semblance of weakness...I'm not talking here about the stats or potency of the skills, I'm talking about the core gameplay. Ranged have NO weaknesses. They can attack from up close and at range. They can attack while moving. They can stay away from dangerous cleaves and swipes of bosses without being affected by it, and the closest they ever need to get is about 20 yalms away from the tank, to be sure that they will be caught by Medica and similar even if the healer is overly fond of stacking almost on top of the tank to keep him in range...

If you want to remove weaknesses, small or large, make the suggestion while adding new ones. Or, hey...A bow-mage is still an option. Then, by all means, go ahead and ask for a sure-cast grade of anti-knockback.

[CreinCrein]

Ranged dps already have 100% uptime in 99.99% of situations while outperforming melees if you factor in raid contribution. They don't need a niche-of-a-niche action to fill in the 0.01% they're missing. If melees have to constantly deal with positionals and breakaways; ranged physical can handle 1 lost GCD over the course of a 4 tiered raid. You lose auto attack uptime on breakaways, which affects nin's OGCD building. You're almost guaranteed to lose a GCD when you're doing neurolinks/chariot in ultimate, doom placements after a chariot also near guarantee a positional loss/GCD clip. You're stacked in front of nael for a decent amount of time which amounts to more of a loss in damage via positionals again. Whenever SMN, WHM or SCH use arm's length they use instant casts to weave in the OGCD, which is a potency loss whereas for a majority of knockback mechanics allow for uninterrupted ranged dps uptime.

Anyways, if I'm correct there is only one encounter where ranged DPS are blown out of attack range; o4s. In the warrior/caster case every knockback mechanic was a loss in uptime. Warriors also had an issue gap closing on newly spawned adds or gap closing back to the main boss after those adds were dead.

[Fredco191]

Remember when Repelling Shot and Blank did damage?

[basketofseals]

Remember when Repelling Shot and Blank did damage?

Leaps off the edge with Displacement

Y-yeah, glad we don't have to worry about that anymore.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

By those standards, each of the twelve jobs should also get complete mobility and near 100% DPS uptime in all situations. Your own argument can be thrown back at you, BRD/MCH already have a huge advantage with mobility. Also it should be pointed out that not all jobs can negate all movement based mechanics. A PLD, for example, cannot use Tempered Will on both pushbacks on Exdeath.

Those aren't the same standards though. If we're going to use the mobility standard, why did Surecast get changed? Casters have near 100% uptime yet weren't told to "suck it up." At this point, it isn't even about damage but more an annoyance. Is it necessary? No. At best it would be a QoL change.