A Summoners Request

[Mattnificent]

Just putting my voice forward to combine the Dreadwyrm Trance and Deathflare, as well as Summon Bahamut and Enkindle Bahamut actions like they are in PvP.

Thank you

[popotaro]

No.
/thread

[Mattnificent]

No.
/thread

But why? I mean is there a reason why this shouldn't happen?

[Shurrikhan]

I’m on the fence about “button bloat”. Having too few buttons makes jobs seem even more monotonous than they already are.

The pet skills should translate over, maybe, and MAYBE DWT and Deathflare, but again, feels boring to press like 5 buttons at all ever, at least to me.

Buttons =/= Abilities.

Feel free to make duplicates of every ability and alternate between which button you activate it by if you so please. It will not affect the complexity of your job in any way.

I see no reason that deathflare and Enkindle Bahamut should be the same button.

This was never suggested, as they are not functionally duplicates or "stages" of the same ability. Deathflare cannot be cast while not in Dreadwyrm Trance, nor can Dreadwyrm Trance by recast in the time that Deathflare is available. Likewise Enkindle Bahamut cannot be cast without Summon Bahamut first being activated, and Summon Bahamut cannot be recast in the time that Enkindle Bahamut is available.

But why? I mean is there a reason why this shouldn't happen?

For the most part, you're simply dealing with people who feel that, say, breaking up Ruin I into combo-cycles of otherwise identical abilities merely varying by 10 potency each as to take up 3 buttons to perform the same filler function (but at faint loss if you have to reapply DoTs just before its third stage) would be a meaningful increase to complexity worthy of its button bloat.

Your only actual, and easily countered, reason would be accidentally double-hits in regard to the suggested Dreadwyrm Trance <--> Deathflare pairing -- causing early accidental Deathflare casts -- which would benefit from the same QoL changes that would affect any such ability or ability toggle with a stacked Cancel Aura effect on the same key, such as Defiance, Deliverance, or Darkside. Simply put, just preventing the stacked action (just as Cancel Defiance is already a stacked action of Defiance, or the cancel aura of any other oGCD stance, and can share the benefits of such a fix) to be queued during the first's animation would be sufficient. That said, you could also go further as to create an iCD of whatever safety margin you see fit, for which margin of time after activating DWT, DF cannot be cast.

But, yeah, it's mostly the "Surely, more buttons means I'm playing a smarter game" meme.

[Llugen]

(buncha words)

No, it does change your gameplay when double-pressing the button wastes your DWT etc due to latency and such.

There are already significantly less buttons on SMN that need to be pressed regularly than there used to be (complete removal of 2 dots, less need to cast them as often thanks to Tri-D, shadowflare recast rather than 100% uptime, consolidation of rouse and spur, etc.); as I said before, if anything they should be making the pet actions as slots rather than specific actions so that changing summons does not make 2-4 hotkeys useless.

[popotaro]

No, it does change your gameplay when double-pressing the button wastes your DWT etc due to latency and such.

There are already significantly less buttons on SMN that need to be pressed regularly than there used to be (complete removal of 2 dots, less need to cast them as often thanks to Tri-D, shadowflare recast rather than 100% uptime, consolidation of rouse and spur, etc.); as I said before, if anything they should be making the pet actions as slots rather than specific actions so that changing summons does not make 2-4 hotkeys useless.

Pretty much this.

[Shurrikhan]

No, it does change your gameplay when double-pressing the button wastes your DWT etc due to latency and such.

There are already significantly less buttons on SMN that need to be pressed regularly than there used to be (complete removal of 2 dots, less need to cast them as often thanks to Tri-D, shadowflare recast rather than 100% uptime, consolidation of rouse and spur, etc.); as I said before, if anything they should be making the pet actions as slots rather than specific actions so that changing summons does not make 2-4 hotkeys useless.

You realize the solution for that, given at the bottom of the post you quoted, is already seen in-game, no? Even a mere one-second safety period prevents accidental double-clicking. And in Enkindle Bahamut's case, it's ideal that it's double-weaved, anyways.

Yes, the SMN toolkit faced unnecessary pruning, but that was to its abilities, not its button-count. Pairing mutually exclusive skills — as per your own recommendation, too, with pet skills — does not bring back Bio, Miasma II, or your casted Shadowflare, but doing so would also remove SE's excuse for future toolkit pruning (which is far cry from button pruning).

[Leoheart]

Do you mean for the skills to change whilst active to remove skill bloat?
If so, it'd be quite helpful, yes.

[Llugen]

I’m on the fence about “button bloat”. Having too few buttons makes jobs seem even more monotonous than they already are. I see no reason that deathflare and Enkindle Bahamut should be the same button.

The pet skills should translate over, maybe, and MAYBE DWT and Deathflare, but again, feels boring to press like 5 buttons at all ever, at least to me.

[Kuzonoha]

I actually like having all the keybinds as they are currently....on the fence with Enkindle Bahamut but I can work with it. There's something about having all of these buttons that helps keep me both calm and aware in combat.

One thing I can say for sure is that I'm not sure how it translates for those playing on a controller. A friend of mine says they absolutely cannot play Summoner on their PS4 controller...never used it so I can't say much on that topic.