Thread: Try to predict Nerf/Buff/QoL of 4.2 Tank Edition

Originally Posted by bswpayton

The only thing I think that can separate these roles are aesthetics, at the end of the day they the rolls gonna be copy and paste of each other

I think we're definitely heading this way even without new jobs. There's not really a decent enough demand for specialty tanks with the content we have at present (strangely for a game where we can roll every job). Not that I wouldn't like a 4th tank just for fun.

P.S. Get rid of weapon vulnerabilities, they're just weird at this point

Originally Posted by DaulBan

Personally speaking as long as jobs have similar tools but play sufficiently differently I'm fine with that. If the job is fun enough to play and reasonably balanced for the fight (IE damage and raid-wide shielding abilities) then I don't really care if Dark Mind is weird Sheltron or w/e.

I agree. Theres a lotta people getting hung up on what the tanks can DO. 'All tanks should be able to MT, OT, AOE mitigate, gap close, have an immunity, match damage/defense/utility' isn't the same thing as homogenization. You could make a reasonable argument that war and pld are pretty 'homogenous', but they don't play the same at all. Even if drk got some type of aoe shield it wouldn't just be a pld clone. All the jobs play quite differently even if they bring similar tools. Having a party shield doesn't make the jobs the same. SIO and DV don't feel the same. Req doesn't feel like IR. Hallowed doesn't feel like HG or LD. Etc.

We could easily have a 4th tank just like Sam feels different than Blm even though they just 'do damage' and don't help the party much. Drg doesn't feel like Nin. Etc.

Tools with similar effects don't automatically mean homogenization. Playstyle determines that. Theres no shortage of new tank options that would be fresh play unlike any existing and still have defense/shields/damage in the range of what exists now.

I agree too with...some things said by different people. x'D

Giving each tank specific strenghts and weaknesses really would add some diversity to the game and would also work great with a fourth tank. (I am expecting Viking, using a greathammer to become the next tank btw)
SE could also scale the tanks just like the dds. From high def/utility and low dps to high dps and low def/utility. (scrapping tank stances would be usefull for this)

Or with the introduction of a fourth tank they could declare two tanks as defensive tanks (PLD and DRK) and the other two to dmg tanks (WAR and possbly VKG).

Anyways, my predicts are a small PLD dmg nerf, maybe a small WAR dmg buff and a overall adjustement of DRK.

Originally Posted by Kreyd

I agree too with...some things said by different people. x'D

Giving each tank specific strenghts and weaknesses really would add some diversity to the game and would also work great with a fourth tank. (I am expecting Viking, using a greathammer to become the next tank btw)
SE could also scale the tanks just like the dds. From high def/utility and low dps to high dps and low def/utility. (scrapping tank stances would be usefull for this)

Or with the introduction of a fourth tank they could declare two tanks as defensive tanks (PLD and DRK) and the other two to dmg tanks (WAR and possbly VKG).

Anyways, my predicts are a small PLD dmg nerf, maybe a small WAR dmg buff and a overall adjustement of DRK.

nooo pali doesnt need a nerf , i mean all the tanks have the potential to do almost the same amount of damage drk needs more defensive cool downs maybe a slight dps buff we dont need to go crashing on palis world

Originally Posted by bswpayton

what would you have it that pali just get their damage slashed so it can just be used in progression content like whm , when pali had less damage it was drk/war, now it can be a mixture of all three thats progress not perfect but better, all the tanks should do around the same damage, but all should have more tools like pali and call it a day.

paladin in terms of damage should be where DRK is now, and DRK in terms of damage should be where WAR is now, buffing only DRK and not nerfing PLD can only mean 2 things
1.WAR become the unwanted child and tank spot will be mostly DRK+PLD
2.PLD will still get their guaranteed spot and WAR+DRK will clash even more to get their spot in raid
i know that is what you paladin player wanedt because most of you are still bitter about what happened in heavensward, but i'm not going to just agree with it

Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

and that's the problem, paladin has better utility than the other 2 tanks combined so they should not have the capability of dealing the same amount of damage as them

On paper this is sound and I would agree. But as Heavensward and the early 4.0 STR accessory tank phase showed, the only thing that many care about is DPS. All that extra utility? It's great and I love it but it's well and above what's needed to comfortably do anything. if PLD suddenly dropped a huge chunk of DPS it's mostly back to being the unwelcome child after the first 3 days of content again.

Best thing going forward would be to bring DRK a little extra defensive stuff, leave PLD alone for now as the benchmark and start slowly reigning in WAR DPS a bit so we don't get the whole "burst tank for phase pushing" schtick again

Originally Posted by Kreyd

I agree too with...some things said by different people. x'D

Giving each tank specific strenghts and weaknesses really would add some diversity to the game and would also work great with a fourth tank. (I am expecting Viking, using a greathammer to become the next tank btw)
SE could also scale the tanks just like the dds. From high def/utility and low dps to high dps and low def/utility. (scrapping tank stances would be usefull for this)

Or with the introduction of a fourth tank they could declare two tanks as defensive tanks (PLD and DRK) and the other two to dmg tanks (WAR and possbly VKG).

Anyways, my predicts are a small PLD dmg nerf, maybe a small WAR dmg buff and a overall adjustement of DRK.

This would actually make it much harder to balance. When you intentionally make tanks with strengths and weaknesses, you inherently make some better than others. When they have specific niches they become OP/Required in situations those niches are advantaged and trash when they aren't. Just look back to the 'Pld is the physical tank, Drk is the magic tank' of 3.x. On fights where magic damage prevailed no one ever took pld. It only stood a chance on the physical fights (people took drk anyway for those but that was due to its superior damage.) If both tanks did the same damage you would have tanks good at 1 encounter and terrible at the other.

Putting tanks into these arbitrary categories just bakes that problem in from the ground up. "X tank is offensive! Y tank is Phy Defensive! Z tank has raid mitigation! 4th XY Tank Magic defensive!". That's just bad design in this type of PVE MMO. You will look at the encounter and grab the 2 tanks that fit that fight and exclude the others. Lots of AOEs? Get Z tank. Physical fight? Your not taking XY tank ever.

Give all tanks similar tools but have them execute them in a different way. War and Pld both do great damage. But war does it with bursts and managing their gauge resource to punch and FC them to death. Pld does it in a steady stream and blowing shit up with holy. They both have a single target heal, but equal and clemency in practice are very different and fit their jobs style and character. Etc. Etc.

Stop giving tanks niches. That's why 2.x was bad. Drk's 'magic tank' leftovers are part of the reason its a little worse. Just make them stylistically different but ultimately have similar mitigation, damage, utility. As soon as you push them to far in 1 direction you just get exclusion for the one that doesn't fit the meta. You can have infinity tanks if they are in the same performance ballpark.