Rival Wings rewards (exp/tomes)

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

But what mechanical complexity though? If you played a job in PvE, you knew how the skill worked. It would be no different in PvP, save for something like Unmend which became a draw in, Unleash which became a bind, and Protect which was (then) useless. How things worked didn't change. How to use them effectively together to burst did, and THAT wasn't too difficult to learn.

I understand an attempt was made to try and simplify things to ease learning, but as I said, it wasn't needed. More initiative and willingness to learn how PvP worked was needed. And many Shatter matches, and even Rival Wings now shows me just how little many players understand PvP in general. I don't want to make it sound like it was all so easy to learn - believe me, a LOT of my trial and error was just error. But I wasn't afraid to take those chances and push myself. Sure I screwed up and people wanted to point fingers, but more often than not, I did things right, or the risks I took proved worth it.

Lamia's an Aether server, right? Why don't we team up sometime? Maybe we can gain a better understanding of each others viewpoints?

[Astrololol]

if you don't like the pvp rewards vs the time spent to get it, then do roulettes or something? pvp is pvp, it shouldn't be the go-to for people scared to pvp to lvl in by f*cking botting 24/7 or afking

[Wintersandman]

So SE simplified the system and people still don’t know how it works. Can’t make anything idiot proof because they always build a better idiot.

I still don’t get what your salt is with 3.x Riyah.

[RiyahArp]

if you don't like the pvp rewards vs the time spent to get it, then do roulettes or something? pvp is pvp, it shouldn't be the go-to for people scared to pvp to lvl in by f*cking botting 24/7 or afking

cool, have fun with your 30 minute queues for an 8v8 match then. I queued up for 4 matches of ranked feast a bit ago, each 20 min apart save for the last, and 75% of it were the same people. The incentives were there just to get people to try the mode and hopefully like it; without them people don't bother.

So SE simplified the system and people still don’t know how it works. Can’t make anything idiot proof because they always build a better idiot.

I still don’t get what your salt is with 3.x Riyah.

I'll try and be simple.

All the problems you have now you'll still have with a 3.0 system. It will just make executing things more of a pain in the butt for a lot of players. It will not really fix things like you guys think it will, because you are forgetting the ways 3.0 sucked. But it will probably tip the balance about whether or not PvP is fun to bother with.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Oh Riyah. . .

Season 6 is underway. If anyone's queueing for the Feast, they're probably queueing for ranked. Sure, the unranked modes are pretty active at times, but now that people know those weapons are a prize, most want to try to rank up for them in this first shorter season.

As for the 3.x vs 4.x PvP, no, changing it either way isn't going to make things easier for anyone who doesn't want to learn or doesn't care to and just simply wants the XP from the mode. But! Using MCH for example, you won't have a situation where you know the job in PvE, then you come to PvP and you hear "You don't have Gauss Round or Ricochet. And you can't give MP or TP, not even with PvP skills. Speaking of PvP skills, your aoe stun makes you overheat, but it's tied to your gauge, so if you're in cooldown after an overheat and it runs out, you can't stun. Oh, heat works differently too. Hot Shot and Cooldown are the same button, and are both a +/- 25 now. Oh, and you can't use turrets or anything turret related. . ."

MCH might as well be an entirely different job between the two (and sadly, people STILL don't play this "easier" PvP MCH right most of the time). You continue to see everything wrong with 3.x PvP, but overlook what was right. Were you not the one suggesting a skill to help melees close the gap in a different thread? That's what Fetter Ward helped with tremendously. And where is Fetter Ward now?

[RiyahArp]

Third, you misread, I queued for ranked. The other modes don't pop at all. Lamia is a primal data center. The weapons aren't really a draw.

I'm not sure what the latter point is. If you want 3.0 pvp, you are still wanting a pvp kit that is different from current pve. The difference would be that you have a lot more buttons and abilites in pvp rather than a lot less. If it's the whole 3.0 kit, probably close to double the actions. I'd probably say work on more of a 4.0 with CC model, if that...I can't ever see myself playing DRG with 3 separate jumps and a single buff for jumps again, or needing to use heavy thrust and life surge in addition to normal attacks.

[Wintersandman]

All the problems you have now you'll still have with a 3.0 system. It will just make executing things more of a pain in the butt for a lot of players. It will not really fix things like you guys think it will, because you are forgetting the ways 3.0 sucked. But it will probably tip the balance about whether or not PvP is fun to bother with.

You're not saying how 3.0 sucked? From your post below it sounds like it was too many abilities. We have all those abilities in PvE but I don't see people complaining about how complex it is. You also don't need to use every ability.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

"Too many buttons"

Shall I break out the hotbar pics again? I've disproven that one several times, and still keep the pics handy to do so on demand.

[Wintersandman]

"Too many buttons"

Shall I break out the hotbar pics again? I've disproven that one several times, and still keep the pics handy to do so on demand.

Agreed. I could fit all the relevant "PvP buttons" into less than what we have now for PvE. My only complaint with the 3.x system is hotbars were all dependent on job and not gearset. So if I swapped it for one it swapped it for my PvE gearset as well.

[RiyahArp]

Oh come on, Third. Your pvp abilties both offensive and defensive took close to 8 slots, with your turrets and wildfire another 4. That's 12 right there, without basic attacks, cc, buffs, or potions/meds. I think you are being too contrary. people complained back then that they could barely even fit the pvp actions in.