Please add a mode that doesn't require as much teamwork.

[RiyahArp]

tl;dr while editing, please give us a pvp mode where there isn't such a huge gap between teams if they do the one single meta you've designed in the game well or not.

Been thinking about why Rival Wings is angering me so much, and I think it's because the experience really is designed for high team cohesion to succeed. Most PvP in this game is like that, where there's a pretty massive gap between teams that execute your planned strategy for how a match should go, and teams that don't or can't. I'm not saying they should win, but that the experience really sucks overall unless you discern the single way you as designers want us to play and execute it.

I don't think this should change, but I'd kind of like a lower pressure mode where there isn't really only one way to do things, and it's more of skirmishes and small battles than organized team events. I don't mean like Feast, because Feast really just has one way to do it either. Maybe it should be open world pvp or something. But as Japanese game designers, I notice you really tend to ignore the individual over the group, and focus on a group executing everything perfectly to win. The only way you change this is by making "perfect" a very low bar. But it would be nice to have a mode where it doesn't suck horribly if you fail to execute the predetermined strategy. In RW it's often 10 minutes of knowing you have lost, and in shatter it's ten minutes of staring at a huge deficit in points. Same as feast.

I guess something a bit less like savage and more like bomberman, where the fun isn't in a meta but in the chaos. PvP in this game is the exact opposite; every match as a single meta, with maybe an alternate, that you have to stick to and outperform the other team. And if you don't do this, the match is just waiting to end most of the time. I just would like a bit more free form pvp where maybe players can drive events and not react to them so much.

[Airget]

I'd prefer SE give us the option to actually have premade groups. . . that can only go against other premade groups. It is a bit of a pain that the current Rival Wings, while it's 24v24 in reality it's a 4 man content that people can play together with. If you try to get others to join they will either be on the opposite side, in another instance or by luck on your team.

[RiyahArp]

That doesn't really solve anything. Even with premades, you still have the one single timeline of the match you won't deviate from, and you still both have to follow the script. It doesn't really change much because even with premades its so tightly structured that you can stalemate quite easily if you are evenly matched. You play a ful 20 min to lose the game by 1% on the core.

[Wintersandman]

tl;dr while editing, please give us a pvp mode where there isn't such a huge gap between teams if they do the one single meta you've designed in the game well or not.

I can't think of a single pvp game/mode/etc that doesn't require Teamwork. Shatter you don't have to follow the meta. That's just the least confrontation route people follow. 24 man big ice is the best example of no actual meta holds. I have won just by capturing bases and ignoring ice, I have won by kills and ignoring ice (3 Big ice still up), I have also won by beating on ice because my team couldn't hold a base and didn't know how to kill opponents.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

That was the beauty and bane of Shatter. There was no one way to win it, and being able to adapt strategy on the fly made all the difference.

I beat a premade once using hit and run tactics on objectives. Since we knew they wouldn't hit ice and only go for players, we'd split up, some would cap their base, others would go for the ice. Once they were sighted, we signaled each other with macros, the team that spotted them would then scatter (since they couldn't follow everyone), and the next team would move for the next objective. It was a glorious, and pathetic moment. But a win for the "little guys".

Ah, fond memories. . .

[Wintersandman]

That was the beauty and bane of Shatter. There was no one way to win it, and being able to adapt strategy on the fly made all the difference.

I beat a premade once using hit and run tactics on objectives. Since we knew they wouldn't hit ice and only go for players, we'd split up, some would cap their base, others would go for the ice. Once they were sighted, we signaled each other with macros, the team that spotted them would then scatter (since they couldn't follow everyone), and the next team would move for the next objective. It was a glorious, and pathetic moment. But a win for the "little guys".

Ah, fond memories. . .

Haha We did this exact same thing against a premade led my Gracidea Shaymin. We saw it was her (She was the only schizo healer on Primal that would charge forth at the front of her group casting aero on everyone before her pack devoured them) and called out to our group "AVOID MAEL". We went on to whittle away at lil ice until we saw them coming and we would disperse. We ended up winning by a small margin but still won.

[RiyahArp]

I can't think of a single pvp game/mode/etc that doesn't require Teamwork. Shatter you don't have to follow the meta. That's just the least confrontation route people follow. 24 man big ice is the best example of no actual meta holds. I have won just by capturing bases and ignoring ice, I have won by kills and ignoring ice (3 Big ice still up), I have also won by beating on ice because my team couldn't hold a base and didn't know how to kill opponents.

The meta in shatter was loading up one GC with all the pvpers so the other ones had all the bots and solo players. I lost all faith in the PvP community when they did that on primal and people argued to my face it wasn't happening, even as maelstrom started tipping to absurdly high win rates, and the freelancer mode put me on flames 95% of the time as a solo player.

I guess what I mean is I'd like a mode where we can just have fun, and not have to always follow a restricting, tight meta that sets up a precise timeline for a match. Shatter was not freeform as you think, because people planned their stuff around the times ice spawned. RW is honestly horrid that way, especially if you aren't in a bot. Maybe open world stuff or something, but the whole "group precise play" thing is getting really old. The fact that in RW it's to the point where you can't even play half the jobs in the game due to the meta is ridiculous

[Wintersandman]

The meta in shatter was loading up one GC with all the pvpers so the other ones had all the bots and solo players.

Maybe that occurred on Lamia but Primal it did not. I know my friends who are PvP'ers stuck with their GC. It was the sheep who went all to one GC. Mael was better on average in 72 man but in 24 when ice had less weight they were horrid and would have a losing record because they were PvE'rs in a PvP mode.

[RiyahArp]

Maybe that occurred on Lamia but Primal it did not. I know my friends who are PvP'ers stuck with their GC. It was the sheep who went all to one GC. Mael was better on average in 72 man but in 24 when ice had less weight they were horrid and would have a losing record because they were PvE'rs in a PvP mode.

I don't know if you can still see them,but you could see the win rates for frontlines via the lodestone, and ask people their weekly stats. It wound up hardening on primal to mael being first, twin being second, and flames being third. It was really bad, and I'm glad that mode is dead now.

[HaoNam]

I guess what I mean is I'd like a mode where we can just have fun

Translate: You just to play something that you can always win.