When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

[LunaTsukihime]

Similar to how Aion does combos?

Aion, Tera, PSO2.

A number of games, i dont want to turn FF into one of them obviously, but again, it would be a measure against the skillbloating that will happen with the next level cap increase unless SE only adds traits and THAT outcry i don't wanna hear.

Right now we DO have kind of a sweet spot, yes, stuff is okay-ish even tho personally DRG and MNK feel like a bit of a cluster*beep* skills-wise.
But look forward, lets add 5 more skills in the next expansion, and then another 5, see where this leads ?

A screen full cluttered of hotbars over the actual gameplay, dont think that that will be much fun.

[Vaer]

would be a bad change? And this is even a step further than only combo-consolidation (which would only be merging F4a-d into one button, but keeping the different potencies depending on how many you have cast).

I would liken BLM to combo consolidation as something like Fire IV giving AF3 and also firestarter and Blizzard IV giving UI3. So instead of even bothering to use Fire/F3/Blizzard III now you can just spam Fire IV, firestarter is just automatic on the same button instead of having to reach for another button and hit Blizzard IV once and throw in the thunder. Or to a macro that has the entire fire rotation that you just hit x times, and one with the entire blizzard phase that you hit x times instead of separate buttons and just reacting to the ogcd/class mechanics on the side. Kind of weird comparing a mostly hard casting class with no combos to a melee with actual combos though. It doesn't really work. The consolidation would actually make melees closer to current BLM though.

Exactly. The "lost" buttons 6,7,8,9 would best be replaced by new oGCDs, resulting in the same ammount of different GCDs you do (just with less buttons), but with 3-4 more oGCDs to weave into your rotation.

A smart oGCD rotation is harder than a smart GCD rotation, i.e. lowering the ammount of GCD buttons while getting more oGCD buttons would make the rotation always more engaging.

Except now you didn't actually save any buttons, you added more buttons, eventually it would be a wash. Replacing existing buttons and doing the consolidation is way better than removing them then just adding skills. (The thread is about button bloat).

[F_Maximillian]

Aion, Tera, PSO2.

I have a pretty solid chunk of experience with Tera and PSO2 so I can say a few things about the systems there. In tera their hotkey system is very similar to ours and there's only one class that can basically be reduced to one or two buttons. However that class also functions very poorly if you were to play it like that compared to manually using each skill from your hotkeys. It's inefficient and only the newbie players who don't know any better tend to use it. The rest hit their hotkeys individually for better results.

In pso2, early on people (including myself) simply used multiple weapon pallates with different PAs on them instead of using the less accurate and flexible chained PA system in most cases. As the game expanded it became more of a hit to effectiveness for people to use chained PAs and with the addition of the 3 button hotkey setup users had the option of doing away with the chain system alltogether. From what I've seen from those I play with personally as well as those who record videos the majority of the population has embraced the 3 button setup because it's more effective and flexible than the chained skill setup.

In both cases, this setup is actively avoided due to inflexibility/inefficiency and given the option most opted for a system closer to what we already have. Just some food for thought. As far as FF goes, as long as it's optional I wouldn't particularly mind but they would need to do some sweeping changes to the classes or there would be issues with people discriminating against those using the simplified setup because they would be at an objective disadvantage in exchange for the simplicity.

[SenorPatty]

People have this idea that doing 1 2 3 on their keyboard makes them skilled and adds challenge to the gameplay. So when they see an idea to have only to tap 3 times one button instead of 3, for some reason its akin to dumbing the game down.

Like, do you guys hear yourselves sometimes? Or do you have such a hard time push/clicking your buttons that you've deluded yourselves into thinking it really sets you apart from the pvp system?

Edit: forgot to add make it optional. We don't want feathers to ve ruffled anymore than they are now by making it mainstream.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

People have this idea that doing 1 2 3 on their keyboard makes them skilled and adds challenge to the gameplay. So when they see an idea to have only to tap 3 times one button instead of 3, for some reason its akin to dumbing the game down.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with skill but feel. Pressing 1-2-3 in quick succession feels more active whereas pressing 1-1-1 endlessly feels incredibly dull. There's a reason people complain about RDM aoe or DRG/DRK pre-Abyssal and Sonic Thrust, respectively. Now if they added a series of different combo finishers, perhaps it works. Granted, then you aren't saving any button space, so what's the point?

[SenorPatty]

It has nothing whatsoever to do with skill but feel. Pressing 1-2-3 in quick succession feels more active whereas pressing 1-1-1 endlessly feels incredibly dull. There's a reason people complain about RDM aoe or DRG/DRK pre-Abyssal and Sonic Thrust, respectively. Now if they added a series of different combo finishers, perhaps it works. Granted, then you aren't saving any button space, so what's the point?

Ok, I can actually understand and get behind that line of thinking.

All the more reason if such a thing were to be implemented, it would need to be optional.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Ok, I can actually understand and get behind that line of thinking.

All the more reason if such a thing were to be implemented, it would need to be optional.

Optional doesn't really work though. Say they add an additional five abilities. What incentive do the devs have to make room for those who don't want their main combos consolidated? I'll basically be forced into it or have to start using QERTFZXC and etc for ability slots, which I'd prefer not to. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke...

Edit:
For argument's sake, I've been trying to think of how they might alter Monk's abilities if they ever did implement the PvP system. All that comes to mind is consolidating both rotations into a single button each but having the abilities shift based on your form. So using Dragon Kick would trigger both Twin Snake and True Strike to show up, and either of those would lead into Snap Punch or Demolish. Basically, you wouldn't have to use the combo (i.e. 1-1-1) for the other abilities to switch over.

[Enla]

Optional doesn't really work though. Say they add an additional five abilities. What incentive do the devs have to make room for those who don't want their main combos consolidated? I'll basically be forced into it or have to start using QERTFZXC and etc for ability slots, which I'd prefer not to. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke...

And frankly combo-oriented games tend to attract very specific audiences whilst repelling others. I'm not sure SE would want to whole sale embrace this system when so many people are fine with how it is now.

I also frankly don't think the PVP system is any more fluid or balanced than what we currently have, nor do I trust SE to make the proper adjustments in implementing it in PVE content after the debacle that was their ability trimming during SB's launch. The way they pruned SCH with it being one of the few classes that had abilities GIVEN BACK and the current state pre-70 Machinist is in don't give me any faith that they know how to handle large sweeping changes with all their classes.

[Brill_]

People have this idea that doing 1 2 3 on their keyboard makes them skilled and adds challenge to the gameplay. So when they see an idea to have only to tap 3 times one button instead of 3, for some reason its akin to dumbing the game down.

Sort of. With 1-2-3 there is the possibility of hitting the wrong key. With 1-1-1, that risk is completely eliminated. Kind of like playing the piano. Which requires more skill? Using all the keys to play a song or pressing one key repeatedly to play a song?

[Nezia]

People have this idea that doing 1 2 3 on their keyboard makes them skilled and adds challenge to the gameplay. So when they see an idea to have only to tap 3 times one button instead of 3, for some reason its akin to dumbing the game down.

Like, do you guys hear yourselves sometimes? Or do you have such a hard time push/clicking your buttons that you've deluded yourselves into thinking it really sets you apart from the pvp system?

^This, BLM is probably the class with the least buttons in their rotation, yet it is probably the hardest class to play in savage/EX enviroment, more buttons don't make a class harder.
Also

So when they see an idea to have only to tap 3 times one button instead of 3, for some reason its akin to dumbing the game down.

The very only reason we don't do this already is because macros in this game suck. Which makes me believe they suck intentionally so that people don't macro their combos.

But again, if they would remove every redundant skill from the game dragoons would end up with 6 or 7 buttons to press.